PilotAware

British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: Seanhump on April 26, 2018, 03:52:54 pm

Title: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on April 26, 2018, 03:52:54 pm
Afternoon ..

Odd one for you to ponder over ..

I’m out in the field at the moment, using SkyDemon on an iPad with an external Bad Elf for nav duties, with PAW running via my second iPad for radar screen use ..

All working with PAW radar wise as you’d expect .. it’s stayed connected for the last 7 odd hours and running well.

However, if I try to connect SkyDemon up to it on the same iPad mini , SD throws GPS signal lost messages up on the screen (with 7 found in the bottom of the banners and doesn’t work .

SD on the iPad mini work fine with location services and another external Bad Elf....

I also tried connecting up the main iPad, and a third backup, all with the same results.

The info screen shows all the greens for adsb, gps, clients etc ...

Switching back to the browser based radar screen shows traffic as expected, as doe the traffic page !!

I’ll post pics when back at base...

Any ideas ..?  Connectivity is normally by PilotAware, but I did try the Flarm settings with no joy ...

Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: exfirepro on April 26, 2018, 06:04:57 pm
Sean,

Initial thoughts are that your devices are getting confused by the profusion of data sources available.

Although UDP (PilotAware) connectivity has significant advantages over FLARM ‘TCP’, we (Lee) found that there can sometimes be an issue with UDP when multiple devices are connected to PAW (which devices can of course do automatically even if nominally connected to something else) and then one or more of them ‘disappears’ again from PilotAware’s ‘list’ without notice - for example if it reconnects to its original source, or simply goes to sleep.

PilotAware wants to continue sending data to each device on its ‘list’, but can no longer ‘see’ all the devices and in certain circumstances this can cause transmission of UDP data to stop completely. I think this is possibly what has happened in your case. The only ‘nagging doubt’ is that the simple ‘fix’ in the field is to change connectivity to FLARM - which you say didn’t resolve the issue. There is a proper ‘fix’ in the pipeline which has been extensively tested and will be in the next software update.

Looking forward to seeing your pics.

Regards

Peter



Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on April 26, 2018, 06:53:13 pm
I understand what you're saying, but I figured I'd get at least one of the devices connected up via Skydemon ...

I tried reboots, and shutting down the browser that was running the Radar display too ...
Be interested to hear about the fix that's in testing ..

Anyways, pics attached, plus a couple from todays trip round the South and back ..
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Admin on April 26, 2018, 08:38:10 pm
Hi Sean
Never seen that before
Have you tried since ?
Thx
Lee
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on April 26, 2018, 09:11:40 pm
Hi Lee

I tried again at the next site whilst waiting ... the same happens.

Will check tomorrow to see if I can easily replicate it ..

Cheers
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: exfirepro on April 26, 2018, 10:50:35 pm
Sean,

Ignore what I said earlier. It looks like there is something seriously strange going on here.

Your ‘Home Screen’ clearly indicates a power supply issue ‘Throttled = 0x50005’ and also a distinct lack of USB devices registered - the only USB device showing in the bottom section of the table is the WiFi dongle - even the USB Hub isn’t showing.

No SDR is registered in the USB Devices Section, yet ‘ADSB’ is ‘Green’, shows ‘Connected’ and with (+170) recent messages.

No GPS is registered in the USB Devices Section but ‘GPS’ is also ‘Green’, shows 7 satellites and a DGPS 3D Fix, but no recent messages - Msgs.=1983 (+0)

Have you checked that all the USB devices are properly seated in their sockets?

Does this imply a significant software / hardware fault Lee?

Regards

Peter
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on April 27, 2018, 04:17:42 pm
Thanks for that ...

Same again today - Radar is fine , SD not so..

All devices are plugged in and secure - cable ties stop them coming loose.... (they're not too tight, but enough to stop them moving)
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Admin on April 27, 2018, 05:09:56 pm
Hi Sean,

Since the last time you successfully connected to SD, has anything changed ?

Update to SD ?
Update to iOS ?
Changed Power lead ?
Changed Power supply ?

Anything you can think of ?

Also can you post an screenshot of the logging page

thx
Lee
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on April 27, 2018, 05:22:30 pm
Hi Sean,

Since the last time you successfully connected to SD, has anything changed ?

Update to SD ?
Update to iOS ?
Changed Power lead ?
Changed Power supply ?

Anything you can think of ?

Also can you post an screenshot of the logging page

thx
Lee

Hi Lee

I think SD has been updated - I usually do that one when it's available
IOS on the ipad mini is now set at 9.3.5 - it's an older ipad and won't go any further than that

The other kit is on 11.3

The Power cable is the same - Juice Bits as supplied, as is the power supply - Dell Power Companion (I've tried both of the ones I have with the same results, and they are good for a 2.1amp output)

Nothing has changed on the PAW either - Ironically I've just tried again (on the desk at home) and it's hooked up straight away..

I'm not sure when it last connected 'successfully' as I've been using the Radar screen on it's own for a while now, with SD running separately on another ipad using the Bad Elf ...

Getting the logs now ...
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Admin on April 27, 2018, 05:26:01 pm
Hi Sean,

in which case - what is different between the scenarios where it is OK, and it is not.
Thx
Lee
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on April 27, 2018, 05:31:29 pm
The difference is that the kit isn't in the Heli ..

What do you need log wise - they only go back to the startup this afternoon when it seemed ok

It's running now (on the desk again) - all the 'normal' kit in use

SD running on the ipad mini , using FLARM, and it seems to be running ..

FYI, The version of SD is 3.9.4.118 on the mini
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Admin on April 27, 2018, 05:33:04 pm
Hi Sean,

Do you have the same number of devices connected now as you did in the Heli ?
Are you using the same power supply ?

The log I wanted was from the logging page (when it is not working), so the fact that it is now working is not much use I'm afraid

Thx
Lee
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on April 27, 2018, 05:37:33 pm
Yep

Same devices and PSU, all running as they would in the heli.

I'm out in the machine for the weekend (up in the Lake District) so will monitor again - plenty of time to test as it's going to be a looooong weekend

I'll snap pics of the logs should things not go to plan, along with the home and SD screens as before ...

Cheers
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Ian Melville on April 28, 2018, 04:41:49 pm
Don’t you need two hands to fly a heli, and two to do a screenshot in IOS.  :o
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on April 28, 2018, 07:37:22 pm
That you do, and two feet, but the stick can sit between the knees and hold the aircraft level..

Sadly, the same outcome today .. I’ve plenty of pics (taken on an iPhone as opposed to iOS screen grabs) of the screens and logs .. different device so will upload later, but exactly the same.

Home screen shows a distinct lack of devices as per the original pics, radar is working 100% fine, but no SD connectivity whatsoever ... go figure...?

I’ll upload the logs for Lee when I can .

More of the same tomorrow ..!
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: exfirepro on April 29, 2018, 06:01:10 am
Hi Sean,

I was down at the airfield all day yesterday doing maintenance, but was monitoring the Forum. Interesting to read your updated report, though it still doesn't help track down the issue. One thought - when you had the setup running at home and had good connectivity, did the PAW USB devices show in the bottom part of the Home Screen?

Have you tried shutting SD down completely - i.e. exiting the program completely and restarting it, rather than it just 'sleeping' on the iPad(s)? WARNING: You need access to the internet and your SD login details to restart it. Worth a try.

Did you manage to get any shots of the Logging Screen when it wasn't working?

Regards

Peter
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on April 29, 2018, 08:39:33 am
Morning Peter

Yep.. tried restarting SD .. I’m from a 25 year IT background so restarts of everything are done pretty much 1st time something’s not right.

I have log pics to upload (taken on separate device and in a hotel at the mo) , but yes, the devices DOD show on the PAW home screen when running on the bench, but not when running in the A/C yesterday. Will upload them later

Will monitor today as expecting to be airborne for 5+ hours and see what it’s doing .. it’s an odd one...

Cheers
Sean
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on April 30, 2018, 09:15:01 am
Morning ..

Error logs attached for Saturday

It was like this pretty much from the get go ...

Sunday's flying was a little different - PAW worked with SD for around 3.6 hours, then crapped out as above, but still with a fully functional radar display !

The only difference between the days was the location ... Windermere area on Saturday, Preston/Blackpool on Sunday then back to base..

Hope these help shed some light on things ..
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Admin on May 01, 2018, 09:18:32 am
Hi Sean

I think there is some strange hardware fault developed on your unit.
There should be 3 devices isted in the USB table, and there is only 1 listed

One other question how many WiFi devices do you have connected to PilotAware ?
It looks like it is reporting 3 ?

I think you need to return this to Dave Styles for investigation
http://pilotawarehardware.com/contact-us/

Thx
Lee

Thx
Lee
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on May 01, 2018, 09:26:12 am
Thanks for the Link Lee ..

I'll get going with the return

At the time of the pics there was only one physical device connected to the PAW unit - the main ipad is in flight mode when running the Bad Elf, and wifi is off on my phone ..

All of the devices are plugged in - the odd part is that is 'sort of works' even though the devices are not shown!

Thanks
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: exfirepro on May 01, 2018, 10:10:19 am
Sean,

I have just been reading back through your post history to refresh my memory as something was nagging at the back of my brain. Quick question - is this your ‘Classic’ or the unit you built up yourself? If it is the ‘home-built’, presumably you got round to purchasing and adding a Bridge?

The reason I ask is that when you first constructed the 2nd unit you talked about ‘cloning’ your original SD card, and also spoke about still receiving Mode C/S - which shouldn’t be possible without a Bridge fitted. This was obviously what was nagging my brain, wondering if ‘cloning’ your card rather than creating a full fresh install has somehow corrupted the software. If it’s the original ‘Classic’ of course, this shouldn’t apply - unless the cards have got mixed up of course.

Just a thought.

Regards

Peter
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on May 01, 2018, 11:49:21 am
Hi Peter

It's the original classic ...

The SD card is the correct one (ie, the one that was cloned FROM).

The test unit is still awaiting a bridge purchase to complete (a lack of available time at the moment has this on hold, but other than that it's pretty much good to go in the all-in-one enclosure)

Cheers
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: exfirepro on May 01, 2018, 12:46:25 pm
Thanks Sean,

Just wanted to check to make sure we have the full picture.

Regards

Peter
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on May 12, 2018, 06:14:19 pm
Well, some promising news ..

Ran the test unit today in the aircraft, using the bridge from the Classic, and apart from the odd wifi drop out (reconnected once, and rebooted the PAW once) its pretty much worked as advertised,

Looks like it may be hardware other than the bridge (or possibly software..)

I have Daves address to return the Classic for investigation, which I'll do this week now I've run the test on the bridge ..
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Admin on May 12, 2018, 07:33:51 pm
Hi Sean

Are you saying that you have swapped a bridge, and it works ?
So you have 2 bridges, one which appears ok, one which stops working in the heli ?

Thx
Lee
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on May 12, 2018, 09:41:50 pm
Other way round ..

I only have the one bridge, but I do have a second PAW that's been put together for case testing (minus the bridge)

My bridge, in the second PAW seems ok ..
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: exfirepro on May 12, 2018, 10:03:35 pm
Dodgy Raspberry Pi??

Peter
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Ian Melville on May 12, 2018, 11:04:35 pm
Gave him the runs  :o
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: exfirepro on May 13, 2018, 09:29:38 am
Hi Sean,

My ‘Dodgy Raspberry Pi’ comment yesterday evening did prompt another thought last night.

You have said you ‘Cloned’ the card for your second ‘Homebuilt’ PAW from the original. Have you tried a completely new download and install of the latest software onto a fully reformatted card as per the Full User Guide? If not it would be interesting to see if this makes any difference.

Regards

Peter

Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on May 13, 2018, 10:40:58 pm
I've not tried that … the Homebuilt is fine (that's the one I was using yesterday with my bridge)

It's the classic that has the issues (and the software was cloned FROM that one...)

I should've taken the homebuilt out today as I was in the Gransden Lodge area all day and they were busy flying …. would've helped to have another pair of eyes!! - sadly, the kit is now stripped down and ready to send to Dave …

Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on May 31, 2018, 11:13:31 am
A quick update on this one ..

The PAW has been returned for investigation, and the replacement received (Many thanks to Dave & Lee)

The software has just been updated to the latest release & I've reconfigured the profiles to suit the aircraft … now for some weather so I can go an test in the air. So far, on the ground everything seems to be as expected, with targets showing in SD and the Radar display … (EMA are giving 6k vis and broken at 700' so might not be going further than the hover today ..)

Will report back ..
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Admin on May 31, 2018, 11:47:59 am
Hi Sean

Thanks for the update
can you please specify exactly 'latest release'
for future readers of the forum, this will be different from what you mean today

The software has just been updated to the latest release

Thx
Lee
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on May 31, 2018, 05:19:30 pm
Good point Lee

I've updated to 20180520 …

Cheers
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on June 11, 2018, 08:58:01 am
Well, so far, so good....

The replacement PAW hasn't dropped out so far - the last test being a full day over at Cosford yesterday, with nothing untoward happening at all.

Traffic display nicely on SD, in the air, and gliders on the ground being relayed ….

I left it running from 0800 until the battery ran out at around 1500, then swapped over to the spare battery ....

 :) :)
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on June 17, 2018, 10:39:29 pm
Just to update those that have been following this one ..

Happy to report that things are working as they should - ran in the aircraft for a solid 9 hours today with not a single drop out …!!
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Ian Melville on June 18, 2018, 06:06:38 am
Big tanks 😜

Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: Seanhump on June 18, 2018, 09:53:09 am
Big tanks 😜

Thanks for the update.

I land next to the bowser!! (quite often too!)
Title: Re: Odd connectivity problem ...
Post by: exfirepro on June 19, 2018, 08:45:12 am
Hi Sean,

We could have used one of them yesterday for the Fly-UK boys - stuck at East Fortune for a second night due Wx. Makes our fuel runs pale into insignificance. I see signs of movement on our webcams already though, so with a bit of luck they’ll get on their way today.

Glad your PilotAware setup is now behaving.  :)

Regards

Peter