PilotAware
British Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Steve6443 on January 19, 2018, 08:43:47 pm
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Good evening, I have just packed out my soldering iron and soldered up some cables. Rather than go down the route of Flarm Mouse, I have elected to go for the Flarm Eagle (Power Flarm based) and it's booted up ok (at least I think so.) However the LEDs on the FTDI are resolutely blank. When should they start transmitting? If it's set for GPS and Traffic on Flarm Tools, shouldn't I see these blinking when the satellites have got a fix?
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Have you set the USB ports on the PAW config? Make sure you get the right port and match the speed with that set on FLARM Eagle.
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Yes, Port 1 (top left) is set to Flarm, 19200 baud but no LEDs on the USB connector are lighting up hence I was wondering whether I had an issue with either my soldering or whether the LEDs were just not working or whether my unit is defective.
Just out of curiosity, what colour should I expect to see? I bought the USB-RS232-WE-1800-BT 0.0 from RS electronics.
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The LEDs are Green and Red. Green should be flashing when receiving data. If you power up the PAW and then plug in the USB-RS232 cable the LEDs should both flash as the chip boots up.
I usually find these issues are wiring errors.
Looking at the Flarm Eagle manual. From the data port pin-out, Pin 4 needs to go to the yellow of the FTDI cable and pin3 needs to go to the black. Though at this stage it serves no purpose, I would also connect pin 5 to the orange.
Looks to be a much better bit of kit than the old mouse. I withdrew my mouse as it was as much use as a chocolate teapot, darn expensive one at that :-(
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For some reason, the LEDs now flash. Weird. No wiring defect - pin 4 went to yellow (which on my RJ was green), pin 3 to black (which on my RJ was yellow). Could just be that the thick clouds and location of the GPS antenna on the dashboard of my car last night was blocking a fix and it only flashed when data was received (I didn't check to see whether the LEDs flashed when the PAW booted.....
However I didn't wire the orange to pin 5 - what functionality could the PAW give to the Flarm Eagle?
Am off away for a week or so, when I get back and find some flying weather, will fit it in and take the old kite flying and report back.
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However, I didn't wire the orange to pin 5 - what functionality could the PAW give to the Flarm Eagle?
PAW has aircraft profiles, so if you change ship, then PAW profile change can write the correct hex ID and reg to the Flarm Eagle. quickly done and no need to find a PC. Whether there are sufficient Flarm devices out there connected to a PAW to be work Lees time to finish that side-task
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PAW has aircraft profiles, so if you change ship, then PAW profile change can write the correct hex ID and reg to the Flarm Eagle. quickly done and no need to find a PC. Whether there are sufficient Flarm devices out there connected to a PAW to be work Lees time to finish that side-task
I will only be using it in one aircraft so that's not something that needs to be done...... even so, interesting.
Flarm Eagle also claims to be working on an ADS-B detection system, if that's the case, I might retrofit that such that I can remove the ADS-B dongle (one less antenna). Any thoughts on whether removing the TV dongle / antenna would have any negative impact on the functionality of PAW? As far as I see it, PAW integrates the Flarm data into the PAW system. If Flarm is sending data including ADS-B and Mode A / C / S, then that would seem to obviate the need for the additional antenna?
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Have they actually said they will detect A/C/S with a Flarm Eagle? Which will need an additional antenna to receive anything on 1090 anyway?
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Have they actually said they will detect A/C/S with a Flarm Eagle? Which will need an additional antenna to receive anything on 1090 anyway?
Yes, that is the Plan. Currently, with the official PowerFlarm you can buy either the PowerFlarm Pure (only Flarm) or PowerFlarm ADS-B. The latter shows Mode C / S (no A), Flarm and ADS-B. The unit used in the Flarm Eagle is Power Flarm Pure.
The makers of Flarm Eagle have said they will be offering an upgrade for the Flarm Eagle which will convert it from PowerFlarm Pure to PowerFlarm ADS-B. Now, they have some space to fit a third Antenna but that is usually used for antenna diversity in the Flarm Eagle Pro so maybe it's either diversity for Flarm OR ADS-B. I am waiting to see what the upgrade will cost......
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Steve,
Sorry, I've been busy the last couple of days, but have been following this thread. Having just read back over the thread and also re-read the (currently very basic) Flarm Eagle quick-start manual, it does appear, as you say, that LXNavigation now intend to produce an upgrade option to 'PF + 1090'. Pretty sure that option wasn't in Version 1 of the guide. This would be relatively easy by adding the standard 'PFC' 1090 Module already used in Flarm's own PFC.
I haven't personally seen the physical size of the Eagle yet, but judging from the size of the connectors, this would almost certainly need to be an either/or alternative to adding the second Flarm Receiver. I would suspect the additional cost would be in the same ballpark as the existing price difference between the current PF Pure and PF Core - i.e. in the region of £500. It might of course be cheaper, but still much more expensive than PilotAware, and you will still need a 1090 antenna.
With regard to the LEDs on the FTDI lead, Ian is correct, the Green LED flashes to indicate received data, but I can't say without re-testing whether this flashes on receipt of GPS data or only on receipt of traffic data because I currently use a different lead in the plane with no LEDs (having donated my FTDI to connect our CFI's PFC to his PilotAware). I do have a spare FTDI lead here, however, so will try to set it up and test it tomorrow.
Best Regards
Peter
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The LED will flash for any RS232 packets. The FTDI device has no idea what is being sent. If the Green LED is flashing then it is almost certainly GPS data as the odds of there being a Flarm unit in range are slim.
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Thanks Ian,
Thought that should be the case but didn't want to say so without testing it.
Regards
Peter
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Thanks, Peter, for your input.
I disconnected the GPS aerial from the PAW and fired it up yesterday afternoon and everything worked. Green light was merrily flashing away but unfortunately due to weather, no Flarm traffic to be received. On the home page of the PAW web server I could see that it was using Flarm as the basis for GPS source so all good....
The size of the Flarm Eagle is about the size of a pack of paper handkerchiefs.....
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The size of the Flarm Eagle is about the size of a pack of paper handkerchiefs.....
Sadly quite familiar with those at the moment :'(
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Thanks, Peter, for your input.
The size of the Flarm Eagle is about the size of a pack of paper handkerchiefs.....
Thanks for that Steve, definitely helps picture the size, but I can't get the picture of Ian M with his paper handerchiefs out of my head now :-\ (sorry Ian)
I am trying to 'justify' buying yet another device at present, but am torn between the potential ease and reliability of LXNav's PowerMouse with its USB and 2 x Data Ports and the the Eagle's Dedicated Power supply (I used to have PFC but never liked the idea of supplying the power via a data lead). I already run ADSB, via a TT21 with dedicated GPS (installed pre-PAW), PilotAware with FlarmMouse (I actually have 2 x FlarmMouses...(Mice?) as that was the only way I could carry out my initial testing when we were trying to integrate it with PilotAware) and a Zaon MRX (used since 2009, but not so often these days - except for comparison, so will be interested to hear how you get on.
Best Regards
Peter
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Thanks, Peter, for your input.
The size of the Flarm Eagle is about the size of a pack of paper handkerchiefs.....
Thanks for that Steve, definitely helps picture the size, but I can't get the picture of Ian M with his paper handerchiefs out of my head now :-\ (sorry Ian)
I am trying to 'justify' buying yet another device at present, but am torn between the potential ease and reliability of LXNav's PowerMouse with its USB and 2 x Data Ports and the the Eagle's Dedicated Power supply (I used to have PFC but never liked the idea of supplying the power via a data lead). I already run ADSB, via a TT21 with dedicated GPS (installed pre-PAW), PilotAware with FlarmMouse (I actually have 2 x FlarmMouses...(Mice?) as that was the only way I could carry out my initial testing when we were trying to integrate it with PilotAware) and a Zaon MRX (used since 2009, but not so often these days - except for comparison, so will be interested to hear how you get on.
Best Regards
Peter
I don't understand the reference to the Flarm Eagle power - yes, it can supply 12v to an external display but the 12v isn't going elsewhere in my setup so I don't see what benefit that would be.
Coming back to Ian's point about the PAW being able to transmit to the Flarm - I'm reading references to about (e.g.) the FLARM View II from LX Nav (not to be confused with the makers of Flarm Eagle, LXNavigation ;) being able to display ADS-B traffic from (eg) a PCAS system. Imagine the following:
If I input the data from the Flarm into PAW, would PAW combine it and output it to a display - without the need for Wifi? If so, I can now see everything on a display without needing to output it to Wifi. What intrigues me most is that the Flarm View II can also be used for navigation, can display way points, airspace, differentiate between airstrips with grass and with tarmac runways etc.
My thoughts are to reengineer the FTDI cable such that it terminates in 2 x RJ12 cables - i.e. cut an RJ12 cable in half, reconnect the 12v pins and ground pins together to ensure continuity - that way the Flarm View is powered directly by the Flarm Eagle.
One end of the RJ12 would be deemed input to PAW - I would then connect pin 3 and 4 of that RJ12 socket to the Data In / ground of the FTDI, this end of the RJ12 I would connect to the Flarm Eagle. The other end would be output - I would then connect pin 3 and 5 of the other end of the RJ12 cable to the Data out of the FTDI and connect this to the Flarm View 2.
If the PAW outputs all traffic on the TX line, then I have a complete system displaying Flarm / PAW / ADSB on a display without the need for any wifi, so I could remove that dongle. The only question I am left with is the airspace - apparently it accepts CUB files for this, but I haven't a clue where I would get them from and keep them updated.....
Concerning PCAS, I also have been using the MRX since 2012, it ran alongside PAW but as the Flarm Eagle needs to use the 12v socket, it might be consigned to the cupboard....
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Thanks, Peter, for your input.
The size of the Flarm Eagle is about the size of a pack of paper handkerchiefs.....
Thanks for that Steve, definitely helps picture the size, but I can't get the picture of Ian M with his paper handerchiefs out of my head now :-\ (sorry Ian)
I am trying to 'justify' buying yet another device at present, but am torn between the potential ease and reliability of LXNav's PowerMouse with its USB and 2 x Data Ports and the the Eagle's Dedicated Power supply (I used to have PFC but never liked the idea of supplying the power via a data lead). I already run ADSB, via a TT21 with dedicated GPS (installed pre-PAW), PilotAware with FlarmMouse (I actually have 2 x FlarmMouses...(Mice?) as that was the only way I could carry out my initial testing when we were trying to integrate it with PilotAware) and a Zaon MRX (used since 2009, but not so often these days - except for comparison, so will be interested to hear how you get on.
Best Regards
Peter
I don't understand the reference to the Flarm Eagle power - yes, it can supply 12v to an external display but the 12v isn't going elsewhere in my setup so I don't see what benefit that would be.
We seem to have got our 'wires' crossed a bit here Steve (sorry for the pun). My comment had nothing to do with the Flarm Unit supplying power to other devices (though they will generally do so), I simply meant that I really like the fact that LX Navigation supply power to their device(s) via a separate dedicated cable. With most FLARM devices (including the 'Flagship' PFC) you need to supply the power via the data cable(s) - albeit using dedicated pins. I personally like the idea of keeping a '12 - 30+ volts at potentially up to 3 Amps' power supply and low voltage data cables separate - especially in an aircraft!
Coming back to Ian's point about the PAW being able to transmit to the Flarm - I'm reading references to about (e.g.) the FLARM View II from LX Nav (not to be confused with the makers of Flarm Eagle, LXNavigation ;) being able to display ADS-B traffic from (eg) a PCAS system. Imagine the following:
If I input the data from the Flarm into PAW, would PAW combine it and output it to a display - without the need for Wifi?
PAW will certainly combine its own data and that received from FLARM (including 1090MHz data from a PFC) and send the combined and filtered data via PAW's WiFi Hotspot to compatible Nav Systems, but (to my knowledge) we have never tried feeding this data via cable to a Flarm View II or similar device. Data can certainly be transferred by cable to systems such as Dynon and Oudie, so this might be possible, but Lee would need to advise as to the practicality. At the present time BTW, PilotAware is NOT configured to transmit data to Flarm units, though it was suggested in the early days that the 'Orange' wire be connected when making up the USB to Flarm leads 'just in case we found a need to use it'.
If so, I can now see everything on a display without needing to output it to Wifi. What intrigues me most is that the Flarm View II can also be used for navigation, can display way points, airspace, differentiate between airstrips with grass and with tarmac runways etc.
As can most navigation systems and generally on a larger, more readable screen.
My thoughts are to reengineer the FTDI cable such that it terminates in 2 x RJ12 cables - i.e. cut an RJ12 cable in half, reconnect the 12v pins and ground pins together to ensure continuity - that way the Flarm View is powered directly by the Flarm Eagle.
One end of the RJ12 would be deemed input to PAW - I would then connect pin 3 and 4 of that RJ12 socket to the Data In / ground of the FTDI, this end of the RJ12 I would connect to the Flarm Eagle. The other end would be output - I would then connect pin 3 and 5 of the other end of the RJ12 cable to the Data out of the FTDI and connect this to the Flarm View 2.
If the PAW outputs all traffic on the TX line, then I have a complete system displaying Flarm / PAW / ADSB on a display without the need for any wifi, so I could remove that dongle. The only question I am left with is the airspace - apparently it accepts CUB files for this, but I haven't a clue where I would get them from and keep them updated.....
One flaw here - the PAW USB ports can't (at least at present) be configured as 'Input' and 'Output' at the same time, though IRC Lee did give this some thought in the past, but I'm pretty sure the general consensus was that there was no significant benefit in trying to do so as that's not really how PAW is designed to operate. Such decisions can of course change. I'm not trying to be negative by the way, just want you to know how things are.
Concerning PCAS, I also have been using the MRX since 2012, it ran alongside PAW but as the Flarm Eagle needs to use the 12v socket, it might be consigned to the cupboard....
Pretty much the same with me, except that I could never get mine to run on the aircraft 12 volt supply. I tried that when I first installed it and it completely wiped out my comms with white noise. I remember telephoning Zaon in the States about the problem after several attempts to fix it and their 'best suggestion' was to run the Zaon off my aircraft's 'second power supply' to keep it separate from the one supplying the other comms gear. In my case that turned out to be the two 'AA' batteries :-\
Best Regards
Peter
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If so, I can now see everything on a display without needing to output it to Wifi. What intrigues me most is that the Flarm View II can also be used for navigation, can display way points, airspace, differentiate between airstrips with grass and with tarmac runways etc.
As can most navigation systems and generally on a larger, more readable screen.
Yes but the Flarm View II isn't a navigation system, it's just a screen - and (in aviation terms) cheap. Usually a screen would just display traffic. This would display traffic and position and airspace etc...
Concerning PCAS, I also have been using the MRX since 2012, it ran alongside PAW but as the Flarm Eagle needs to use the 12v socket, it might be consigned to the cupboard....
Pretty much the same with me, except that I could never get mine to run on the aircraft 12 volt supply. I tried that when I first installed it and it completely wiped out my comms with white noise. I remember telephoning Zaon in the States about the problem after several attempts to fix it and their 'best suggestion' was to run the Zaon off my aircraft's 'second power supply' to keep it separate from the one supplying the other comms gear. In my case that turned out to be the two 'AA' batteries :-\
No problems from my side, the MRX worked perfectly, no interference whatsoever.....