PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: Paul_Sengupta on May 21, 2016, 04:05:45 pm
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Got a strange problem. I just tried to configure my Pi 2 with the 20160511 software, or at least the software which I downloaded today. Having written the SD card and allowed the Pi to do its thing, I tried to connect using my 2012 Nexus 7...however it wouldn't. It sees the SSID, tries to connect but can't. So I tried another SD card with some older software in the Pi 2, and that worked fine, I could connect. I tried the "faulty" software in a Pi B+ and I could connect to that too. The only combination which didn't work was the new software and the Pi 2. So I tried to connect another tablet and that worked. I tried rebooting the Nexus but that didn't help. I tried forgetting the network and re-connecting, but that didn't help either. The Nexus is the tablet I use in the air so it would be nice to get this working!
What has changed in software versions which means my Nexus can't connect if it's on a Pi 2? Indeed has something changed?
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Hi Paul
I dont have access to a nexus 7.
What I could do is give you access to a number of builds to perform a 'binary chop', then we could isolate the change which appears to break the nexus ?
I would not be able to do this till Monday
Thx
Lee
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Ah, great, thanks. I've managed to get it to connect now using battery power on both devices, but the connection is very unreliable and Sky Demon keeps saying that the connection has been lost.
The Asus 173 remains connected with no apparent problems.
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Ah, great, thanks. I've managed to get it to connect now using battery power on both devices, but the connection is very unreliable and Sky Demon keeps saying that the connection has been lost.
The Asus 173 remains connected with no apparent problems.
Hi Paul
If you are now using battery on both devices what were you using before
Regards
Keith
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I had the Pi plugged into a PI 2 PSU from RS and the tablet plugged into a mains charger.
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Have both tablets been associated with multiple access points?
From memory Lee had turned the power down on the WiFi dongle, so is your tablet flitting between the PilotAware AP and another one it has been associated to previously? Depending on OS devices will simply use the one from the list of previously associated APs with the best signal. Easy test is to leave the tablet sitting near the PilotAware and see if it still happens?
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Yes, both tablets have multiple saved Wifi access points, but here at home only the home Wifi and the PAWs.
Anyway, this power reduction thing had occurred to me, and it appears there may be a power mismatch somewhere between transmit and receive. I've been experimenting. ??? ;D
It is possible to get the Nexus to connect but it has to be at the correct distance from the Pi. On battery, this is no closer than about a metre and a half from the Pi, and no further than maybe 3 metres. On mains (Pi RS PSU), this is no closer than about 2 metres and no further than half way down the stairs, whatever that is including attenuations due to house bits, I don't have enough clear space in the house to test the free air range! :P
The software I used that worked I marked as being 2016-03-07 which was before the power reduction? I'm writing a new card with that software now so I can put in the licence to experiment with it.
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Yep, 2016-03-07 works fine at all ranges. Even downstairs as it has more power... :D But more importantly it works with the tablet right up near the Pi.
Edit: Actually, there is a limit, but it works up to about 10cm away, and reliably from about 15cm away which is good enough! 2m away as in the case of 2016-05-11 isn't so good when in the cockpit!
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That's looks like software then. I was referring to aeons ago during the beta, Lee had the power of the WiFi right down but turned it up a bit to fix dropout issues. No idea about the current releases.
I really must get round to getting hold of a current setup. So far I've used a borrowed one to test against my chargers (work great) and do some basic testing.
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A useful thread. I have just retrieved a serviceable wifi dongle from my dustbin that I had assumed gone duff as its range had drastically reduced. Didn't know PAW was running Wifi at low power with latest SW.
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I tried again with the new software and it seems to become reliable over a distance of around 1.2 to 1.3 metres, estimated by eye.
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Hi Guys,
As you say Steve, very interesting. I'm just about to head down to the airfield (main PAW is in the plane). Currently running my iPad mini because I prefer the 4:3 screen ratio for SD, but have still got previously used Nexus 7, so will power it up and give it a try.
Thanks for the heads up Paul.
Best Regards
Peter
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Note that this is the 2012 Nexus 7, I didn't try it with my 2013 version. I didn't try distances with the Asus 173 but it seemed to work at a distance of 30-50cm.
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Hi Paul
One thing I did change in a recent release was the output power on WiFi it was dropped from 100mw to 50mw. Also the wifi channel was fixed at 9, whereas it is configured based upon the last character in the MAC address.
I wonder if one of these could be affecting you ?
At some point I plan to make these configurable on the web interface
Power, channel, ssid, password
Thx
Lee
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Hi All
It was my first running attempt of anything to do with PAW yesterday having just received a wireless adaptor. I too was using a Nexus 7 2012 and was experiencing the same issues as Paul. When looking at the list of available wireless stations prior to attempting the connect, the Pilotaware WAP kept appearing (with good power) then disappearing completely for a second or two. On an unsuccessful attempt to connect, it wouldn't even attempt again until I 'forgot' the PAW and re tried to connect (though still unsuccessfully).
I used 'WiFi Analyser' app on my phone to have a look at what was going on in the spectrum and it showed the PAW on channel 9, the highest signal on the screen but occasionally dropping away to nothing. Significantly,my home access point is on channel 10. I switched off my home wifi briefly and managed to get the N7 connected and it stayed connected even with the home WiFi back up.
I was wondering if the dropping of the PAW signal was some form of auto channel selection trying to kick in but being prevented by the PAW software until something manages to connect to it?
This is , of course, all probably not too important in 'real world' flying use as the PAW is most likely to be the only WAP inside the aircraft ;)
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Hi Vic, can you try moving the tablet away from the Pi, see if it connects at a certain distance? Me me that was over about 1.2 or 1.3 metres.
I have an engineering software build where the Wifi changes are reverted and that works fine, so Lee and I are going to experiment to try to see what has caused this problem. I would suggest the next software update will fix this. :)
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Hi Paul, yes I initially achieved a connection from around 2 metres.
From the front bedroom of my house (in Essex) with the PAW unit sitting on the windowsill, SD was showing ADSB targets as far away as over Manston at FL300, some 40NM away..
I moved the PAW to the back bedroom to get a better line of sight to the West but kept the Nexus 7 in the other room, the two were around 20 ft apart and separated by a stud wall but remained reliably connected.
It's achieving the initial connection that I am still having problems with there's definatel;y something quirky with the wifi in the N7, Google has made several fixes to this over the course of Android builds for this machine.
I am using a Cyanogenmod ROM on my N7 based on KitKat to acheive something near a usable speed (though SD, once loaded runs perfectly)
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Flew with the N7 and the PAW yesterday and it was a non-starter, the unit constantly disconnecting every minute, with messages in Skydemon saying Lost GPS connection or lost connection to the butterfly. It was also a pain to get the initial WIFI connection to the PAW from the N7.
I also tried from my phone (cheap Chinese Android clone) and this was stable, connected easily and Skydemon worked well.
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Flew with the N7 and the PAW yesterday and it was a non-starter, the unit constantly disconnecting every minute, with messages in Skydemon saying Lost GPS connection or lost connection to the butterfly. It was also a pain to get the initial WIFI connection to the PAW from the N7.
I also tried from my phone (cheap Chinese Android clone) and this was stable, connected easily and Skydemon worked well.
I think there is a problem with the Nexus and wifi mode g
We reconfigured for mode b, and the problem went away for Paul Sengupta
Thx
Lee
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Rock solid on my my Nexus 7 (2013) Android 6.0.1 but that will be a different O/S version to a 2012 device.
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Hi Steve,
It was also never a problem on my 2013 Nexus 7, and I believe Paul also had one which connected fine. It was just his 2012 model which seemed to have the problems when Lee upgraded the WiFi to 'g'. As Lee said, he reverted to 'b' in an 'Engineering' build of the software which seems to have proved this. I understand Lee is working on a solution.
Regards
Peter
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I have a Nexus 7 Gen 1, not sure if it's vintage, I can loan to Lee for testing if that helps?
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Has anyone seen this same issue but with the IPad mini, both yesterday and today, the IPad dropped the Wifi connection to the PAW and the only way I could re-connect was to jump into the IPad settings and rejoin the AP.
Regards
Paul
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Hi Paul
Sorry to sound like an old record but are you sure that the power supply and lead you are using is giving 5.25V and 2Amps to the Pi. The lack of this accounts for a very high percentage of drop outs. If this is OK then it needs further comment.
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Hi Paul
Just to follow up, were you using the power lead supplied ?
This has caught a few people out, it needs to be a high capacity 20 AWG power connection
Thx
Lee
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Ill get a 0.5m 20AWG JuicEBitz cable ordered and report back.
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Hi I am a non technical newbe running PAW on a Nexus 7 2012, had initial problems with disconnecting, problem was intermittent power lead, changed lead and now running ok .
Flew friday and today with no problems.
Using software as supplied with the latest kit.
Now just looking for pin outs to connect to Funkewerk Transponder.
Thanks for a nice piece of kit.
Brian
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Hi Brian,
The info you require is a bit spread around this forum, unfortunately.
Regarding connecting PAW to your Funke transponder to give ADS-B Out. You will need to use a USB -RS232 converter cable. This must be "true" RS232, +/- 12V, and NOT the "TTL" cable variant which is only 0-5V signalling.
For pin outs see http://docs.fasvig.info/ADS-B/Funke_TRT800A-H_connection_uncertified_GPS.pdf
Also see later posts on General Discussion" forum thread, entitled "ADSB out from Funke TRT 800H (when should my plane "show on another?")".
Regards,
Chris
(HAC member)
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Bit more information on this which I am still experiencing to a degree on the N7 which definitely appears to be the bad boy in all of this.
I ran the Pilotaware on a Pi 3 official power supply following the previous suggestions.
The N7 is still reticent to connect to the PA WAP but eventually does so after about 30 seconds 'awaiting IP allocation' or similar. Accessing the web server part of the PAW is very slow in responding. The Skydemon connection appeared to hold up well though.
If then, with the N7 still connected, I connect with my phone, the N7 disconnects in Skydemon (wifi stays connected though), unable to reconnect to 'FLARM', the web server is inaccessible and the phone's use on Skydemon with Flarm is also flaky with no web server response. The only way to resolve this is to reset the PAW.
On resetting the PAW, the phone connects fine and I left Skydemon running stable for an hour seeing ADSB targets. As soon as I try connecting the N7 though, the phone is dropped out of Nav in skydemon.
I believe it should be no problem at all connecting multiple devices to the PAW? Hope this helps anyone with diagnostics or maybe the next release will solve the issue.
Vic
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Hi Vic,
Which version of PilotAware are you running, I will be uploading a version which reverts the WiFi to mode b, rather than mode g, this seems to resolve these issues on the Nexus
But just want to confirm what you are using.
Thx
Lee
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Lee, I am running v 20160511
Vic
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I am posting this on behalf of user Brian, I do not have access to a nexus 7, so difficult for me to advise, is this the same Mode G issue others are seeing ?
Hi All, Today i have tried for some time to complete step 5 of the PilotAware quick start guide.
When i connect my navigation device, nexus 7, to PilotAware all appears well (i am connected , no internet ) but if i open a browser and type 192.168.1.1 it will NOT take me to the PilotAware Homepage.
I have a SIM card in my nexus 7 and thought this may be giving me problems so i removed it and started all over again. Same result.
Any suggestions?
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Hi Brian
Do you have access to another device to connect to PilotAware, this should rule out if PilotAware is working correctly ?
Any other device with wifi access is suitable. Even a PC
PilotAware should have alternating red/green LED's until the license is enterd do you see that ?
Thx
Lee
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Hi Brian/Lee,
I remember at one stage way back in my early days on PAW having problems logging onto 192.168.1.1 because the tablet insisted on automatically adding a 'www' in front of the 'web' address. I can't remember if this was my Nexus 7 or iPad, though I'm pretty sure it was the Nexus, but the answer was to type http://192.168.1.1 which prevented the device trying to go to 'the internet'. Worked for me.
Might not be the answer but certainly worth a try.
Peter
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I ordered a PAW this week and have access to a selection of devices, with an early N7 in the office, so happy to do some testing when it all arrives.
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Yes, sometimes it does connect, but the actual IP traffic is very sporadic and sketchy.
One thing to ask people having problems is to try moving the tablet about 2 metres from the PAW and see if that helps at all.
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Interesting you should suggest that Paul, I flew with my now Pi 2 PAW (Bridge not arrived yet) and my N7 on Wednesday.
On the outbound flight I was P1. The PAW was on top of the coaming on the other side of the cockpit, no more than a metre away from the N7. The connection was rock solid for the whole hours flight (although we did receive some odd mute lifting RFI on Lakenheath Radar's VHF frequency 128.9 while crossing their overhead ..perhaps it was the multiple F16's doing circuits beneath us! :o )
On the return, I was passenger, with PAW and N7 some 200mm apart and the connection to Skydemon simply refused to stay up for more than 30 seconds in most instances. Looks like we possibly have some internal emissions problems in our 70's cockpit. Next time I'll try switching off the Bendix King DME which is most likely not WIFI compliant!
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Upgrade to 20160530 and all will be well. ;D
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Forgot to mention, I was already running 20160530 which I had previously tested as fully stable at home.
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Ok, not quite solved.
I tried it in the car this evening to/from Popham. When I had the units about 30cm apart the connection kept dropping out, and I had to keep going back to Go Flying --> Use FLARM to reconnect. Moving the units about 40cm apart made the connection stable.
So going to "b" has helped, but it hasn't completely fixed it.