PilotAware
British Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: stephenmelody on September 09, 2015, 08:50:20 pm
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Hi all,
I'll be out this weekend trialing my PilotAware system around the east midlands.
On Saturday i'm planning a trip from Nottingham, zone transit of East Mids, zone transit of Birmingham and inbound to Shobdon.
Sunday is undecided yet and it's all weather dependent.
Thought it would be good to keep a thread open on people who are planning on trialing their device so others could look out for them (but not fly so close as to cause an airprox... :P :P)
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Good idea Stephen.
I will hopefully be flying from Gamston to Leicester between 11-12, and then returning between 2-3 on Friday 11th September, and will have my PilotAware unit with me.
BobD
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BobD, you're not too far away from me...
If I can get my device built this evening, I'll put it in the window of my house tonight and leave it running all the way through tomorrow. You should be able to pick me up, my location is just to the south east of Hucknall disused. Depending on how close you come to Nottingham, you might get me.
I'll PM you if I've got it built, would be good to get some feedback from you as to if you found me at all!!
Cheers,
SM.
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If anyone is flying down the Bristol Channel coast from The bridges to W-s-M or perhaps even across to Cardiff may see my 'ground station' as I'll be running mine over the weekend - unfortunately not flying. If you are under the Bristol CAS (base at 1500) with the standard SD filter on, you should be able to see me.
I'd be interested in any feedback if you do.
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here's a link to the early pilotaware history and some of the trials.
http://www.microlightforum.com/showthread.php?10804-New-gadget-what-s-it-worth
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Took my PilotAware out tonight to give it some trials, went to fly over where BobD lives, but couldn't pick him up.
He was in his garden and I flew literally over the top.
I was having problems mounting the device within the cockpit of the PA28, difficult to get a good place to put the aerials due to the slant of the screen.
How much effect does the angle of the aerials have? At one point I had to have it laying horizontally - where's the best place to mount the device?
Cheers.
SM.
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Flying directly over the top probably wasn't ideal - lot of airframe to shield the relatively low power of the ARF(s). Did he pick YOU up?
In relation to antenna position, again, vertical is best (read that as vital) due to the way these antennae propagate the wave. Which antenna are you using for the ARF? Is it the one supplied with the module (that's about 6" long?). I don't use that but a small 45mm helical antenna which is the only thing that will fit on the coaming of my Pup.
One other thing, are you and 'BobD' sure your ARF's were transmitting?, as I have had two occurrences of mine NOT transmitting - I think the common factor was that I connected to the PilotAware unit too quickly - basically as soon as the SSID came up - and I wonder if that stops the ARF config happening (need to look on the console to verify). I check mine with a comms receiver but not everyone will have one. I am looking to fit a Tx on LED on my kit to confirm the transmitter is running.
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Ok... I over exaggerated. I don't know where BobD lives, but I flew up towards where he lives, turned overhead the general area and tracked back on a reciprocal.
Vertical is really difficult to do in a PA28, I need to find somewhere else to affix it to, I think at one point it was interfering with my radio (or not... hard to say, but it's the first time it's done it).
I'm using the 6ft aerial (hence my issue placing it in a good place) - Neither of us were connected to monitors I don't think so I can't confirm if we were transmitting and neither of us saw each other.
The Tx LED mod would be good, would be interested to know parts and instructions for that.
I'm not sure if the iPad connects immediately it finds the SSID - are you talking about connecting to the wifi, or connecting PilotAware?
You're not in the East Midlands by any chance...??? ;) ;) ;)
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I'll be tootling in an area between Cheddington (Halton) - Daventry - Westcott tomorrow (Sept 13th) between 1100 and 1400 subject to weather.
Anyone else in my neck of the woods around during those times?
Al
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PilotAware seemed to work well last weekend to France and back. Plenty of what I assume were CAT seen on SkyDemon. I even eyeballed some of them! But they were all rather higher. Don't think I saw any PilotAware hits?
Is there anyway of testing that the radio unit is transmitting and receiving properly, other than finding someone else with one!
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I'll be tootling in an area between Cheddington (Halton) - Daventry - Westcott tomorrow (Sept 13th) between 1100 and 1400 subject to weather.
Anyone else in my neck of the woods around during those times?
Al
I'll be out testing mine about the same time near Buckingham / Aylesbury depending on wx
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Message me if anyone is likely to be over the Banbury area, ideally over Bloxham just to the south :)
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See the fly in at fenland on Saturday 19th Sept John Parker and I will be there (weather permitting) with PilotAware units. We are hoping to have something in the tower too!
A separate topic raised in general discussion
dave t
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Anyone likely to be flying near Banbury over the weekend ? If so will leave mine running ...
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yes probably this evening or tomorrow, can you give me a postcode.
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OK - running in the loft about 3 miles S of Banbury
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gonna try Sunday, got back too late this evening.
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Running in the loft again today
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I can run my unit if anyone is passing near to Lasham in Hampshire.
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Hi Ian
We (Dominic and I) picked you up this evening Sadolin 5's i.e. your unit does what it says it should do. Dominic is going to send you some screen shots
Cheers
Keith
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Indeed! Thanks guys - here are Dominic's screenshots
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yes, with my wingman.
That's great news Ian, well done with the build!
looks like there is a 1000' offset error, I believe this is being fixed in the next skydemon release.
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I will be in the Northants/Warks/Beds district today if anybody has a ground based unit that is squawking and want me to look out for.
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Running mine again just S of Banbury, just N of Barford disused.
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Just seen what I think was another PilotAware routing over Shotteswell WNW just N of Banbury
ID: 405B78 = G-CRZA Sportcruiser, 105kts indicated, 1:21pm
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Seen again - this time heading East at 3pm
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Hi is ADS-B
http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/g-crza/#78f6fe0
I was wondering why his Altitude was so bad, but looking at the trace from above, altitude is always reported as Zero
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NATS ADS-B trial ?
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Might be a stupid question, but how do you know it's ADS-B?
Our plane has this track on FR24, but we're not ADS-B, only Mode S...
http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/g-bxex#78abc7e
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Might be a stupid question, but how do you know it's ADS-B?
Our plane has this track on FR24, but we're not ADS-B, only Mode S...
http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/g-bxex#78abc7e
In FR24 under Radar if it says T-MLAT then you're mode S only. It's a FR24 system that triangulates (often v inaccurately) mode S transponders not transmitting ADS-B.
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Yep, understand MLAT, but the historical data doesn't show whether it's MLAT or not... or am I missing that?
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On that second screenshot,you not only have the east moving target but it looks like another, very close in, moving south east, if I'm reading things correctly, Ian?
Bill, Tasmania, Australia
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On that second screenshot,you not only have the east moving target but it looks like another, very close in, moving south east, if I'm reading things correctly, Ian?
Bill, Tasmania, Australia
Yes - that one is picked up via the ADS-B side. Probably an airliner as it's pretty high!
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will be flying Long Marston to Cark and back tomorrow, squawking all the way.
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My PA is currently undergoing surgery, but I have just enabled ADSB out on my transponder and will be flying tomorrow
Route: Abergavenny - Bath racecourse - Tisbury - Old Sarum around mid day and returning after some lunch
Dom, Cark?, have you been before?
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Should be flying Hinton - Sturgate - Breighton - Netherthorpe - Hinton or similar on Sat.
Look out for 400FEE via the ARF interface (no ADS-B out yet)
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My PA is currently undergoing surgery, but I have just enabled ADSB out on my transponder and will be flying tomorrow
Route: Abergavenny - Bath racecourse - Tisbury - Old Sarum around mid day and returning after some lunch
Dom, Cark?, have you been before?
no, but I have PPR. Will be off soon as mist has lifted.
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If anyone is flying today, I have 2 units up and running just about 5nm NW of Nottingham airport.
currently broadcasting ICAO:
6003B3
403D9D
I may take the 9D unit out for some distance related trials in my car later, I've identified some LOS places that I can test with.
Let me know if you spot it.
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I may take the 9D unit out for some distance related trials in my car later, I've identified some LOS places that I can test with.
Bear in mind line of sight, does not really just mean line of sight, it is a bit more confusing, try googling 'fresnal zone', and this will probably make sense, and also why air-air transmissions are much better than ground level LOS
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At Netherthorpe heading S to Hinton in about an hr will look for yours 8)
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Past NE of Nottingham airport southwards - didn't pick you up but might have been a bit far away (4:45pm)
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Will anyone be flying near Northampton this weekend? I am about a mile north of M1 J15, and I could leave my newly built PA (ICAO 406B99) running, I would love a range check, and to see something other than airliners.
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hey Richard,
I'll be flying tomorrow with another pilot, not sure which way we're going but we could come your way. Leave it on and we'll see if we pick each other up!
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Thanks, you have PM
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Shout if anyone would find it useful to have mine running (400FEE just S of Banbury) over the weekend ...
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Will anyone be flying near Northampton this weekend? I am about a mile north of M1 J15, and I could leave my newly built PA (ICAO 406B99) running, I would love a range check, and to see something other than airliners.
Will be over you around noon.
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Will be over you around noon.
Your ID please?
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40526F
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Hoping to take my PilotAware box flying for the time later today, don't think I'll get far from base ( Netherthorpe) but it'll be interesting to try it in the Eurostar (G-CCSR, Hex: 404B54) and see what shows up on SkyDemon.
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Squawking like a good 'un, exactly where you said you would be.
Can't put up screenshot until later as the file size has to be reduced.
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Screen shots
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And another
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Finals for sywell
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Flew up to Sywell today and saw the Award collected on Lee's behalf. Ran PA on both flights and seemed to work well other than the plane fix in SD froze and clearly wasn't tracking. Happens once on the way up and twice on the return. wifi dongle was still connected and collisionaware still connected. No adverse display in SD, it eventually seemed to clear itself. SD on iPad mini does not have this problem.
https://flic.kr/p/zAnJZy (https://flic.kr/p/zAnJZy)
https://flic.kr/p/zmaVzT (https://flic.kr/p/zmaVzT)
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Took my PilotAware box along to Netherthorpe today, and took it up for a local flight this in the Eurostar this afternoon. The pilot aware box was powered on for 4 hours continuously (running off a Portapow battery pack) with no issues. I simply strapped the box to a A4 file behind the seats as a first trial, don't know if this is optimal or not.
A friend was in the left hand seat which left me free to play with the Nexus 7 (2012, running KitKat 4.4.1 with PilotAwareAndroid and SkyDemon installed). Had the setup running for a couple of hours before we set off, plenty of commercial traffic detected flying at altitude over the airfield.
On departing Netherthorpe, SkyDemon did not detect we we moving, still giving our position as on the ground at the airfield, despite being 5 miles south of the field. The detected traffic continued to move on the display however, so the ADS-B side of things was still working. Quit PilotAwareAndroid and SkyDemon, restarted PilotAwareAndroid (let it detect the WiFi hotspot, and fix GPS position) then restarted Skydemon and connected to the PilotAwareBox. GPS position then correct and remained so for the duration (75 minute) of the flight.
Plenty of commercial traffic detected well above us but despite it being a busy Saturday afternoon for GA traffic, none of the other light aircraft we spotted showed up on PilotAware - an indication of the lack of take up of ADS-B I guess (its something we're looking at doing with our aircraft, but we've not implemented it yet). An interesting first test, I was getting a 'blip' every 2 seconds on 869.4 on a handheld scanner so I'm fairly sure the unit was transmitting, but I've no indication of how well the signal is propagating.
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Gareth, I had that "freezing" of position fix three times in two flights yesterday but with ipad solution rather than android. Like you the wifi connection and collionaware semed to be fine. One freeze was for around 95 seconds.
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You won't see much GA with ADS-B out unless lucky enough to spot someone on the NATS trial or a big training operation like at Oxford with 7 Senecas I see at low levels on my unit shooting the ILS.
In terms of GPS I suspect having a uBlox GPS dongle might help - it's one less link in the chain as you don't need the collision aware app running.
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It would be interesting to see a map showing PA users.
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Good idea - we could make a Google map and people can add themselves to it so you can then PM anyone local to you
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In terms of GPS I suspect having a uBlox GPS dongle might help - it's one less link in the chain as you don't need the collision aware app running.
I've got one on order, it's on the slow boat from China though, so I thought I'd give the PilotAwareAndroid app a go whilst I'm waiting. The internal GPS in the Nexus 7 tablet has always worked fine with SkyDemon in the past, although I do agree having everything self contained in the one unit sounds preferable, functioning independently of anything else on board.
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Flew my pilot aware with a ground based unit also switched on and monitoring.
Airborne pilotaware detected by ground until about 7nm while ground based unit was lost by airborne unit at about 2nm. Supect limited by power supply as using a iPhone type battery recharge pack on the ground unit. Airborne unit powered by a high power battery with a 2amp outlet and short,15cm, usb cable.
I'm also ads-b out transponder equipped and range of detection not an issue.
Overall pleased with the detection range of the Of the pilot aware signal provided it's only a power supply issue with the ground based unit.
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Do you have your PAW connected to your transponder to give the ADS-B out or something else ?
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I have my panel mounted GPS, AVMap, connected to the transponder as part of the NATS trial.
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Test my PAW unit today in my Commander 114.
Had the complete unit behind the rear parcel shelf - totally unobtrusive in the cockpit and behind the plastic bulkhead.
Everything worked perfectly using iPad mini and Skydemon.
Cross checked the USB GPS with my Garmin 430 and 2nd iPad - everything spot on.
Whenever the PAW showed traffic in my iPad mini - I looked up and there it was!
Great stuff!
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So took my PA for its maiden flight yesterday morning and all seemed ok at start up but SD just showed me as still on the ground. I tried all sorts of re-starts including a second iPad. After nearly an hour in a hold pattern over Banbury trying all sorts of settings and no success i headed back home (EGBT). Enroute back i thought i should try a separate power supply as this in the whole scheme of things was the only change from previous successful road testing and bench testing. Aircraft power supply to the PA through USB2 power supply which i did not expect to be an issue. I connected a stand alone battery power pack. Success was achieved and i managed to see other air traffic as well as IanF device in his loft. picked him up from just over 2 miles away at 4000ft which i thought wasn't too bad. unfortunately he was not home to let me know how far he could pick me up from.
Has anyone else had the same issue? i checked my PA power consumption and with all running it uses approx 581mA. The USB2 unit should be more than capable to supply so i need to do some voltage supply and amp output checks with it to see and ensure its not faulty.
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Re the power supply issues, and I dread saying this for obvious reasons, but, I've never had a power supply issue.
In the aircraft I run the PAW from a USB power adaptor from the 24v cigarette socket or a portable battery pack. I ensured that the output from the USB adaptor/battery pack was capable of 5v and 2A; the same requirements for charging iPads etc.
Now that I've said this - what's the odds that I start getting power issues!!!
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I plan a flight from Gamston to Leicester today (Friday 23rd October 2015), between 11:30 to Noon, and then return from approx. 14:00 to 15:00. I plan to route outbound to the east, outside CAS, but may return direct with zone clearance (might even land at Nottingham to fill up).
If anyone is monitoring their PAW around that time, I would be interested to hear if they can pick me up (Cessna 182Q G-BFSA).
BobD
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bryannortje
Please contact Jeremy Curtis directly.
I remember another forum post where a problem was found with charge 2, I don't know what it was - but I think its to do with start up consumption - whether this will cause the problems you describe I don't know - but you really do need to talk directly with Jeremy.
Regards
dave
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bryannortje
Please contact Jeremy Curtis directly.
I remember another forum post where a problem was found with charge 2, I don't know what it was - but I think its to do with start up consumption - whether this will cause the problems you describe I don't know - but you really do need to talk directly with Jeremy.
Regards
dave
The early version had a firmware issue, when the stepped consumption as the likes of PAW booting could be restricted. This was first seen with an iPad Mini and the "smart" lightning cable doing things passive cables don't, a firmware fixed sorted it out.
The current Charge2 is a more efficient power supply, with even fewer emissions than previously. It was also put through formal testing by an avionics company to obtain an EASA minor mod approval, with luck the paperwork should be through soon.
I've swapped bryannortje's unit out for a new one (or will when I get it shipped out to him today) rather than just update the firmware.
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Thanks Falconguy - Jeremy and I already have addressed the potential issue and a replacement unit will be winging its way to me soon ;D
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The raspberry pi instructions recommend a +5v 2amp power supply.
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In terms of GPS I suspect having a uBlox GPS dongle might help - it's one less link in the chain as you don't need the collision aware app running.
I've got one on order, it's on the slow boat from China though, so I thought I'd give the PilotAwareAndroid app a go whilst I'm waiting. The internal GPS in the Nexus 7 tablet has always worked fine with SkyDemon in the past, although I do agree having everything self contained in the one unit sounds preferable, functioning independently of anything else on board.
U-blox7 dongle arrived from China on Wednesday, fitted it to the Pilot Aware box immediately, and it's been running constantly on the ground for 5 days without any apparent issues. No need for the PilotAwareAndroid app now, so that means I can connect to the PC version of SkyDemon on the ground to monitor traffic. It will be interesting to see how it performs airborne.