Messages

46

Technical Support / Re: Limited range for PAW traffic - hardware issue?

« on: May 20, 2019, 09:51:23 pm »

With Brian's bridge board in my classic I have been able to see other traffic up to the side of my flight path a maximum of 8 miles away, which is better than I had, but whilst flying today following Jinx who has a Rosetta I found several times that the signal disappeared after about a mile to mile and a half separation.

Hello Geoffrey,

Did Jinx loose your position at approximately the same range (1 to 1.5miles)  or were you visible on his display at a greater range?

Deker

I didn't check with Jinx,  but from when I tried range checks with Brian on a previous flight,  we lost each other at about the same time.

Geoffrey

47

Technical Support / Re: Rosetta & Skydemon Aural alerts

« on: May 20, 2019, 09:50:16 pm »

Hi - just ordered my PAW and looking forward to receiving and setting up. Just a quick question, from what I understand, the audio alerts from the PAW are from a 3.5mm stereo jack which you can plug into your radio interface? However, I also have my SD audio alerts plugged into the radio interface. Is there any way of connecting both, or is it just one or the other?

I am not sure why you would want both PAW audio and SkyDemon audio alerts as you will end up getting duplicate traffic alerts from both devices for the same target.  I'd suggest you try one or the other and then decide which you prefer.

I've used PAW for its audio alerts since almost day 1,  you get both bearingless and bearing targets,  and in the later versions of the PAW software the alerts have been sped up a little which I prefer.

Recently with SkyDemon introducing audio alerts I thought I would give it a try, and after a couple of flights with SD doing the talking I am thinking of swapping back to PAW:

Good things about SD audio alerts:
- you get an announcement when you enter the runway
- audio alerts of bearing traffic (same as PAW)
- alerts for about to enter controlled airspace
- alerts for terrain and other obstacles

Things I don't like about SD audio alerts:
- announcements are slower than in PAW so take up more time to listen to,  and if a radio transmission comes in, the radio will be prioritised so more chance that you lose some of the SD audio alert
- no bearingless target announcements,  have to look at the screen
- unnecessary audio alerts, e.g. for when you fly from the surrounding CTR into the ATZ ('leaving Southend CTR', 'entering Southend ATZ')
- audio terrain alerts - the plane naturally sometimes bobs up and down whilst in flight and if it tips downwards slightly I get a useless 'terrain warning in 6 miles'.  It is very unlikely I am going to continue that downwards trajectory for the next 6 miles without noticing it, and despite trying all the settings I can't turn off in SD or reduce the sensitivity enough.   One thing to get visual alerts I can ignore but audio alerts interfere more
- audio traffic alerts are extremely enthusiastic.  Flying on Saturday, following another plane about a mile behind him,  and some minutes I would receive 2 or 3 audio traffic alerts in the same minute for the same plane !   Got very annoying after a while

I might persevere but think I will go back to PAW as it gives me what I want when I want it, and doesn't distract me unnecessarily.

Anyway, my personal experience, others may have differing views of the benefits of both.

Geoffrey

48

Technical Support / Re: Trig 21 and PilotAware Rosetta - Have I set it up correctly ?

« on: May 20, 2019, 09:20:15 am »

The Trig TT21 can also display the received GPS position. Good way to ensure it is receiving the data okay.
Tony

Just press the FN button on the Trig (I think) 3 times and it displays the received GPS data.   If for any reason the Trig doesn't receive the GPS data it will display an error message instead of the normal 7000 + altitude screen.

Geoffrey

49

Technical Support / Re: Anker power supply - hard wiring modification

« on: May 19, 2019, 04:30:56 pm »

And finally, fitted to my plane with velcro to hold the Anker in place, snuggled on top of the base bar next to the battery.

Thanks for the great idea, I'm much happier with this fitted to give a dedicated stable power supply.

50

Technical Support / Re: Anker power supply - hard wiring modification

« on: May 19, 2019, 04:27:52 pm »

More photos:

• Live cable fed under the metal loop, ready for soldering
• Both cables soldered in
• Heat shrink fed over the cables and pushed up onto the Anker
• After heating with a hot air gun, ready for fitting to the plane

51

Technical Support / Re: Anker power supply - hard wiring modification

« on: May 19, 2019, 04:21:36 pm »

Photos:

• Exposed live terminal connection inside the tip of the Anker
• Heating the side connection with a soldering iron to loosen it
• Levering up the side connection
• Leads fed through the previously removed Anker tip, neutral ready for soldering

52

Technical Support / Re: Anker power supply - hard wiring modification

« on: May 19, 2019, 04:12:27 pm »

Thought I would share my own photos and experience of converting an Anker powerdrive 2 into a permanent power supply for my PAW.

Following Graham’s instructions and photos, when I sawed the nose off I found that the tip of the Anker had a spring underneath that was in turn connected to the top of the circuit board by a pressed metal loop.  Carefully I used a small screwdriver to lever up the metal loop, freeing the spring and giving an excellent connection point for the live connection cable.

To remove the side connectors I put the Anker in a vice and used a soldering iron to heat up the metal side connector, then with a screwdriver levered it out as the plastic around the connector went soft.

When connecting the cables to the Anker, remember to feed them through the tip you cut off earlier.  The hole will need enlarging slightly, either with a drill or I used the soldering iron.

I wired a fuse connector inline with the Anker, a few pounds for 5 off eBay.

Then to cover the Anker up I used 25mm heat shrink. 19mm was too tight and wouldn’t fit over the Anker body.

53

Technical Support / Re: Limited range for PAW traffic - hardware issue?

« on: May 18, 2019, 11:24:06 pm »

First thing to ensure is that the antenna is completely in the clear. After that it may be worth trying another bridge board.

Thanks guys for your suggestions and comments.  I have removed the extension cable from the PAW and re-attached the PAW antenna directly to the PAW (that's currently velcro'd on top of the battery under the nose cone).  When I next go flying I will try it again.

On the power supply itself, ... I will rectify and fly PAW with the sole device on the Anker ...

Geoffrey

Update on my PAW limited range problems ...

I have now wired in a separate dedicated Anker Powerdrive 2 and now only run PAW from this with a 50cm 20AWG connector cable.

The PAW antennae extension cable has been removed and the PAW antennae directly connected to the bridge board and Brian Montilla kindly lent me a spare PAW bridge board so I've been trying it out on a couple of flights to see if these changes together fix my problems.

The short answer is no, I'm not convinced that it entirely has.  With Brian's bridge board in my classic I have been able to see other traffic up to the side of my flight path a maximum of 8 miles away, which is better than I had, but whilst flying today following Jinx who has a Rosetta I found several times that the signal disappeared after about a mile to mile and a half separation.

I appreciate that antennae positioning and attenuation can have a significant effect on signal strength, so its either that I need to extend the antennae again on a pigtail lead, or its the antennae itself that is the root cause of my problems.  My PAW classic is currently mounted on top of the battery on the QuikR base tube,  so its underneath the flexwing front pod.  The antennae is connected straight to the PAW, no extension lead, so is in front of me and behind the glass cockpit and all its electronics.
Although its not connected to any metal parts I am wondering whether the electronics up front is part of the problem and I need to get a pigtail and mount the PAW antennae under the QuikR windscreen or underneath the pod where it can get more 'clear air'?

If so, is there a recommended source of SMA M/F low loss extension leads?

Thanks, Geoffrey

54

Technical Support / Re: Limited range for PAW traffic - hardware issue?

« on: April 29, 2019, 08:30:57 am »

Note this is bad. Very bad. An antenna needs to be completely clear of any metal objects to work properly. If it's up against something metal, it'll not only shield it, but it will couple with it and completely change the characteristics of the antenna. Since this antenna also transmits, it can also damage the transmitter due to a high VSWR. Since you report that connecting the antenna directly to the PAW gives the same results, it may be because the bridge board is damaged due to this.

First thing to ensure is that the antenna is completely in the clear. After that it may be worth trying another bridge board.

Thanks guys for your suggestions and comments.  I have removed the extension cable from the PAW and re-attached the PAW antenna directly to the PAW (that's currently velcro'd on top of the battery under the nose cone).  When I next go flying I will try it again.

I take your point about the metal of the (aluminium) front strut could change the characteristics of the antenna, maybe this needs to be more explicit in the instructions (although is ages since I read them so maybe it does).   What sort of separation from metal objects is recommended?   It could be difficult to have a decent separation AND to secure the antenna in such a way that it can't be liable to move to the satisfaction of my inspector.

On the power supply itself, I can't believe I was so dumb on this.  I'd always run the PAW off a separate external battery so it had a good stable power supply.  On fitting to the new plane I wanted to improve on this and so temporarily plugged in an Anker Powerdrive 2, and then stupidly used the spare USB socket for my iPad moving map.  I will rectify and fly PAW with the sole device on the Anker - which is my intended configuration once I wire in the second Anker for use by PAW only.

And Lee, it was a 50cm USB 20 AWG cable I bought.

Geoffrey

55

Technical Support / Re: Limited range for PAW traffic - hardware issue?

« on: April 24, 2019, 10:58:54 am »

Its difficult to catch the 'its happening now' flag, this is samples every 100ms, but the data is updated every 2 seconds so unless it is caught at the right time, it is not seen. Bear in mind that the transmit pulse is about 6ms wide, and this is the critical current draw period

Also 22AWG is not sufficient, minimum 20AWG is required (smaller the number, thicker the wire)

Thanks Lee,

I went back and checked my eBay purchase history and the item was described as "USLION 50cm 1m 2m 20AWG Micro USB Fast Charging Cable Samsung Galaxy Data Lead", so should be OK?  I'd mis-remembered it as 22AWG.

I'll try a different antennae if I can borrow one and try to see if I can correlate the throttling warning in more detail.   I have also thought, I have my iPad plugged into the same Anker Powerdrive 2 so will try removing that from the equation.

I'm still leaning towards an antennae/bridge problem rather than power as the PAW is stable and shows transponder traffic OK, its just PAW traffic it has a range problem with.   Having said that though, in one (of 3) flights on Monday and one (of 3) on Saturday SkyDemon lost contact with PAW and I had to turn the iPad Wifi off and on again to reconnect and restart navigation.  So maybe not quite as stable as it was.

Geoffrey

56

Technical Support / Re: Limited range for PAW traffic - hardware issue?

« on: April 24, 2019, 07:25:42 am »

Thanks Ian, so these flags are showing “it has happened since boot up”, not “its happening now”.

I was fixing a cooling system leak so running the engine up to near cruise power for periods of time on the ground yesterday.  I can try with the power bank and in flight to see if I can spot how often the throttling/under voltage is occurring, but it might be a bit hit and miss - is this identifiable from the trace logs, or maybe a future enhancement to show frequency/occurrences/percentage or similar to aid in debugging power supply issues?

Geoffrey 

57

Technical Support / Re: Limited range for PAW traffic - hardware issue?

« on: April 24, 2019, 12:05:30 am »

Yes I noticed it said throttled on the last screen shot as well.   Earlier it wasn’t showing this but the last one did show throttling.

I’ll have a look at the power lead and maybe try the power brick again, see if it reduces the throttling.  What does 0x50000 mean - bigger numbers = lots of power issues or what?

I’ll also try and borrow another antennae from a working PAW to see if that shows the same issues.

And yes, its cable tied to the side of the front strut.   In my Quantum I finally got round to getting the PAW installation mod done and my inspector didn’t like the way I had the PAW antennae free hanging (held on with a sticky pad and loop cable tie) in the front of the nose.  Said it was at risk of being knocked or coming free.  So cable tying to the front strut is my attempt to appease him.     Appreciate its close to the aluminium tube but if it were shielding I would think it would be omni-direction shielded on one side which isn’t the case.

Cheers

Geoffrey

58

Technical Support / Re: Limited range for PAW traffic - hardware issue?

« on: April 23, 2019, 10:03:51 pm »

Don't seem to be able to add attachments to PM's so here are three trace files with a buddy showing the problem of him disappearing.

Cheers Geoffrey

59

Technical Support / Re: Limited range for PAW traffic - hardware issue?

« on: April 23, 2019, 09:13:50 pm »

Hi Lee and Peter, and thanks for such a swift reply and for your ideas.

Let me expand on my setup further.  I have a PAW classic fitted to my flexwing microlight.  PAW was mounted under the base bar, under the legs of the pilot.  The transponder antennae was mounted on the base bar in front of the battery (never had any issues with transponder receipt, can see right to the stratosphere!).
The PAW antennae has been in different positions in the front pod.  Mindful of the advice to try to avoid metal or human shielding it’s been on the side of the front pod, down at the end of the nose offset to one side, and cable tied to the front strut.

When I first got PAW (April 2016) I was impressed by the range it would pick other aircraft up over, but it was when I was on FlyUK in June 17 that I realised that it wasn’t consistently working as well as it used to.  I remember at the time it was sometimes playing up, sometimes crashing, sometimes losing connection to SkyDemon, and other times working perfectly.  I have screen shots from that trip showing other PAW planes 15 miles away and I also can recall other times when the range was down to just a few km.

When we were weathered in at East Fortune I spoke to Peter about the problem and tried to diagnose the issue.  I certainly flew at least one leg with the PAW antennae screwed straight into the PAW without the extension lead, and it didn’t make any noticeable difference.

Eventually after the trip and following Peter’s suggestions I traced the stability problem down to the power supply lead. I was using the PAW supplied 22AWG cable but over the year I’d used it the cable had obviously weakened and I found that wiggling the micro usb plug in the PAW I could induce the same drop-outs and loss of PAW.  Bought a new 22AWG micro USB heavy duty cable off ebay and the crashes disappeared.

But I think through all this time I have still had the limited PAW range issue.  I’ve noticed limited range in receiving PAW traffic and its only since I have moved the PAW to a new plane and been flying without the transponder fitted that my flying buddies had noticed the same issue with my transmission range.  With the transponder normally on they’ve been able to see me much further, but just with PAW on, they now can’t.

For all the time that the PAW was in the other flexwing I powered it with a standalone battery brick.  This probably contributed to the failure of the power lead as the brick was loose in the footwell and thus the cable would move around.   Since moving to the new flexwing I have powered PAW with an Anker Powerdrive 2 USB cigarette socket adaptor and the plan is to wire it in more permanently with an Anker mounted in a box and fused to the plane.

PAW antennae is currently cable tied to the bottom of the front strut.   The antennae extension lead came from ebay, its about 1/2 m long.

Attached are photos of the config and other screens and I will PM three trace files to Lee.  The first one shows the problem quite clearly as I climb out of Sandy and lose contact with the other PAW plane on the ground.

Thanks, Geoffrey

60

Technical Support / Limited range for PAW traffic - hardware issue?

« on: April 23, 2019, 08:01:18 am »

I have a PAW classic that’s suffering from poor reception and transmission range for the PAW signal.
Typically I can see other traffic up to about 3-4km away, much more than that and they disappear from SkyDemon.   Talking to my flying buddy he says that he can only see my PAW signals for about the same range as well.
My PAW antenna has a 1m extension lead on it, enabling the antenna to be positioned in the nose of my flexwing.  I’ve tried connecting the antenna directly and didn’t make any appreciable difference so I don’t think its the lead.
Could this be a hardware problem with the PAW bridge board, or any other ideas?  I’d rather not have to buy a whole Rosetta to fix the issue (upgrade kits seem not to be available?), but the PAW range is definitely much less than it was last year when I toured on FlyUK and I would like to fix it.
Any ideas?

Thanks, Geoffrey