PilotAware
British Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bobby on July 22, 2016, 08:03:15 pm
-
I have recently had to return my Pilot Aware and am disappointed that the unit was unable to attain my expectations. I have had a full refund and very happy with the service that I received from the company. The website promised that "Use Pilot Aware to know where everybody is located". As I was only able to identify Commercial Airlines and as a GA pilot, this only gave me information that was irrelevant. Pity really but I am sure that it has a future.
-
I suppose it depends on where you fly, as to what you may see.
Despite it being early days, I have seen a PAW signal on four of my last five flight, none which were a serious threat. I have also seen plenty of Mode S and ADSB traffic that was not commercial airlines(GA and Mil), some which came close enough to keep a serious eye on :o
-
Bobby
I suppose if all you ever read is the headlines and not the details that accompany them then you are going to be often disappointed and dissatisfied in this life.
The whole ethos for the development of this product is to offer the GA community an affordable way to see far more of each other than was previously possible. I would have thought that your modest outlay would steadily grow in value had you taken the attitude to use your unit to demonstrate its benefit to your fellow flyers and encourage them to get one so that you can see them. If we all persuade one other pilot to buy a unit very soon we will be able to see "everybody"
I wonder how many people the first person to buy a radio heard?
I'm proud to be an early adopter of this technology as i fancy this snowball is going to keep on rolling and growing.
If you fly in Scotland, heres hoping I don't bump into you. ;D
Regards
Alan
-
Hi Bobby,
I'm really sorry to hear that you have given up on your PAW and decided to return it for a refund. I have also had personal experience of the frustration of systems which don't seem to work as expected, so can appreciate your position. Having been personally involved in your support in the early days, I still feel that this has been more an issue of lack of suitably equipped 'target aircraft' than any fault with PilotAware. Having used it extensively over the past 9 months or so, I have had sufficient close call alerts from GA Mode S and ADSB aircraft to be in no doubt whatsoever as to PilotAware's effectiveness as an electronic conspicuity aid. Add to that the benefit in being able to track CAT ADSB in close proximity on approach to Edinburgh or during Zone transits, and also colleagues during flyouts and its effectiveness IMHO is beyond doubt.
I however accept your decision that at this stage it is not for you. Perhaps you may elect to rejoin us at a later stage when more aircraft come to recognise the benefits of electronic conspicuity and fit any of the systems which PilotAware can now 'see and display'. Believe me, there is currently still nothing better available at 5 times the price! I have tried most.
Regards
Peter
-
Thanks for all the comments received and appreciate them. Some comments are negative and understand that we do have our own experiences. Thanks to the fellow Scotsman !!!!!! I have given POW lots of my time and enlisted support whenever possible. I love new technology and so willing to give everything a chance, demonstrating POW to fellow aviators, just to be disappointed and embarrassed that my enthusiasm for the unit was not fulfilled. It took a long time to take the decision to return POW and the company even suggested that the unit may be faulty. I felt that inevitably its return was made through a question of safety, rather than staring at my IPad in flight hoping to see a contact, I was safer to look out the cockpit Windows.
If anyone who has a POW and willing to demonstrate to a group of pilots I would organise the visit at Gamston Airport, Nottinghamshire. EGNE. and perhaps its use would be appreciated.
-
I felt that inevitably its return was made through a question of safety, rather than staring at my IPad in flight hoping to see a contact, I was safer to look out the cockpit Windows
Hi Bobby
Definitely agree, the screen is for confirmation, the audio is for attention
I have just arrived at Compton Abbas, passing Brize a warning came on the audio, no adsb only modeS, we then had a good look and saw a C130 just coming out of the cloudbase about 1nm, same height as we were just below cloud
A little scary, but pre-warned is pre-armed, we were looking more attentively after the audio alert
Thx
Lee
-
Hi Bobby,
I was an early adopter of PAW, and am an enthusiastic user who has recently purchased a Classic Unit. I tried it out yesterday on a flight to Gloucester, and am pleased to confirm that after making sure the GPS dongle had a clear line of sight to the sky, it worked as intended. I originally had the PAW in a side pocket, and it couldn't find the satellites, so in future, I plan to Velcro it to the top of the console. I haven't connected it to my headset in the aircraft yet , but have connected the unit to headphones when testing at home, to verify the audio warnings.
I also fly from Gamston EGNE (Cessna 182 G-BFSA), and would be happy to meet with you and any other Pilots to demonstrate and discuss the merits of PAW. Perhaps we should meet, if only because we obviously share the same forename :)
Thanks for all the comments received and appreciate them. Some comments are negative and understand that we do have our own experiences. Thanks to the fellow Scotsman !!!!!! I have given POW lots of my time and enlisted support whenever possible. I love new technology and so willing to give everything a chance, demonstrating POW to fellow aviators, just to be disappointed and embarrassed that my enthusiasm for the unit was not fulfilled. It took a long time to take the decision to return POW and the company even suggested that the unit may be faulty. I felt that inevitably its return was made through a question of safety, rather than staring at my IPad in flight hoping to see a contact, I was safer to look out the cockpit Windows.
If anyone who has a POW and willing to demonstrate to a group of pilots I would organise the visit at Gamston Airport, Nottinghamshire. EGNE. and perhaps its use would be appreciated.
-
Hi Bobby,
I was an early adopter of PAW, and am an enthusiastic user who has recently purchased a Classic Unit. I tried it out yesterday on a flight to Gloucester, and am pleased to confirm that after making sure the GPS dongle had a clear line of sight to the sky, it worked as intended. I originally had the PAW in a side pocket, and it couldn't find the satellites, so in future, I plan to Velcro it to the top of the console. I haven't connected it to my headset in the aircraft yet , but have connected the unit to headphones when testing at home, to verify the audio warnings.
Bob,
As an alternative in this situation I would definitely recommend looking to the VK162 remote GPS mouse. I have my PAW mounted under cover in my flex wing pod with the 'mouse' inside the windscreen out in the clear. You could also fit a remote 'Dipole' P3i antenna if needed. Mine is still inside the fibreglass pod, but works great for me. Equally, your unit will probably work fine just mounted on top of the console as you propose.
I also fly from Gamston EGNE (Cessna 182 G-BFSA), and would be happy to meet with you and any other Pilots to demonstrate and discuss the merits of PAW. Perhaps we should meet, if only because we obviously share the same forename :)
Thanks for the offer to meet up with Bobby re PAW. I feel his frustration and would love him to see PAW working as intended and as from months of testing, I know it can. I'm now beginning to wonder whether there was in fact a fault with his (now returned) unit. His continuing lack of targets seems strange down in your part of the world as there is usually some ADSB or Mode S about, even if there aren't many PAWs yet, though Sod's law usually dictates not when you're trying to do a demo. I would appreciate any feedback from either of you if/when you manage to get together. If I can be of any help, just ask!
Regards
Peter
-
I have to say that I'm really pleased with PAW.
On a flight yesterday I had on one occasion 2 PAW contacts at the same time. I also had ADSB displays of planes within 2 miles at similar levels which I was still unable to see even though I knew where to look. And my eyesight isnt that bad! :) Also many bearingless target rings on Skydemon.
I just need to get the audio sorted.
-
Hi Bob D
Great - I am at Gamston this week - Wed Thurs and Friday and will be at ALH Skytrain with Tony Hather. Maybe my unit was faulty so it would be good to see a full working unit
Cheers
-
Hi Bobby,
I hope to fly from Gamston on Friday, so will try to pop in to ALH either before or after my flight.
-
I have to say that I'm really pleased with PAW.
On a flight yesterday I had on one occasion 2 PAW contacts at the same time. I also had ADSB displays of planes within 2 miles at similar levels which I was still unable to see even though I knew where to look. And my eyesight isnt that bad! :) Also many bearingless target rings on Skydemon.
I just need to get the audio sorted.
Hi again Brian,
What audio/intercom system do you use?
I also had what could otherwise have been a very close call last Tuesday. I was heading south along the East Lothian coast, approaching Torness power station at about 3,500ft, when I noticed an ADSB contact on SkyDemon at -200ft heading towards me at about 15 miles out. It continued to approach on the same track and level in my 12 o'clock, so I adjusted slightly to the right to increase separation whilst continuing to look for the aircraft, but despite knowing where it was coming from only picked it up on visual at about 1/4 mile out, tracking very close and below me - just where PilotAware said it should be. It was a dark blue low wing GA with a bubble canopy - possibly a Eurostar based at Perth but I can't remember the reg. The point is that it was barely visible against the sea below until it got very close. Without PilotAware I might well not have seen it until it was too late.
Regards
Peter
-
Picked up #275297# near Shipston yesterday, up above me in IMC, gave chase but too fast for me, anyone on here?
-
Hi All
I was on the same flight as Peter, (Exfirepro, above) and a little ahead of him and had the same ADSB return on my screen. His/her position on the moving map indicated that he/she was just off the coast and I was just inland, as should be the case, but as we approached head on the images of our aircraft seemed to be extremely close and as Peter says I moved a little further left and had my eyes on stalks looking for him/her. I am aware that the zoom level of the map will have a great effect on the apparent horizontal separation and was satisfied we both had space but unlike Peter, I'm still looking for him/her as I never saw the aircraft pass me, and as someone said above, my eyesight aint bad either.
Without PAW I would not have known there was another aircraft anywhere near me and on this occasion we would both have gone blissfully on our way, or maybe not if I hadn't moved left!!
A similar incident a few days earlier with another club member using one of our spare PAWs was flying in close'ish proximity and none of us eyeballed each other.
If anything, these incident help to prove how difficult it is to see a small moving target from the cockpit even when you know were to look so spotting an opposing small aircraft unaided, in time to react, is always going to be largely down to luck.
Alan
-
Just had a quick look back at screen shots G CEMZ 1st screenshot when near Olney at 10.58 last at 12.17.
Paul Eastlake en route to Ince flyin although i didnt speak to him there recon thats where he was heading
-
Sorry Bobby, I have had to postpone my flight today, so won't be at Gamston. PM me with your mobile number, and I'll liaise with you for when I am next there.
Bob
-
What you really need are two people/aeroplanes with PAWs flying at the same time so that you can see the other.
-
Bobby, it was good to meet you at Gamston yesterday, and to demonstrate my PAW to you. I hope I did enough to encourage you to return to the fold :)
As I explained, I was hoping to check out the Mode S detection as part of my flight yesterday, and can confirm that the rings showing around my aircraft did change colour from green/yellow/red when Mode S was detected. The indication of vertical separation is very difficult to see on my SkyDemon (I use it on my HTC Phone), so the audio warnings would be useful for me.
I think it would be almost essential to have the audio option in use on PAW, I haven't managed this yet in the air, but have validated that it works by using a cheapo radio headset connected to PAW when ground testing. There is another thread on here somewhere that explains how to combine the audio from PAW with a normal headset.
One interesting thing from yesterdays flight was that we detected a target approaching on a reciprocal heading, approx. 200ft above us, and we were at 3000ft. I guess it was an ADS-B target, unless he also had a PAW. Although we were in receipt of a Basic Service, we received no warning about it (Understandable as it was much higher). It flew almost directly overhead, and turned out to be a helicopter. I thought those thing only flew just above ground level ;)
-
Hi Bob
I don't think I would be referring to 200' as "Much Higher". It doesn't leave an awful lot of room for error/difference in altimeter readings and GPS altitude readings.
In a recent similar situation I made a definite right turn to increase lateral separation and in your case I think I would also have considered pushing the nose down. :D
Regards
Alan
-
Hi Bob,
Glad you and Bobby managed to hook up at last. Lee, myself and others from our group have been working with Tim Dawson of SkyDemon on depiction of bearingless targets and as a result we should see a significant improvement in the next SkyDemon update. The Audio warnings are also a great help and well worth connecting.
I'm a bit confused about your reciprocal heading helicopter target, Bob - if it was a moving 'aircraft' symbol it must have been ADSB or P3i. You also say '200ft above us', then later '....we received no warning about it (Understandable as it was much higher). Did you mean 2,000ft above us? If it was only 200ft above you I'd say PilotAware certainly proved it's worth.
Best Regards
Peter
-
My typo ! It was 2000 ft above. If it was 200 I would have dived for the deck 😁
It was a moving aircraft symbol, so I guess out was ADS-B signal.
-
Although we were in receipt of a Basic Service, we received no warning about it
You do realise that the ONLY thing that a Basic Service guarantees you is that the Air Traffic Controller has written your registration on a paper strip, don't you? You should not get traffic information from the controller.
-
Yes I know that, but the fantastic Controllers in our part of the World often go above & beyond, work load permitting.
:) :) :)
-
Hi Bob,
Likewise with our local Edinburgh ATC. They will usually advise of conflicting traffic even on a basic service and are also very good at calling up with traffic info if we are using the listening squawk. A bit embarrassing to have to tell them we already have the traffic on our cockpit displays.... You can almost hear them thinking..... 'What.... In a flexwing microlight'. That's the power of PilotAware!
Regards
Peter