PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: DY691 on March 26, 2024, 04:35:21 pm
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Good evening
Is it possible to have an idea of how long it will take for the flarms to reappear on rosetta?
my latest version is 20230316 maybe I forgot to update...
Bonne soirée
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Good evening
Is it possible to have an idea of how long it will take for the flarms to reappear on rosetta?
my latest version is 20230316 maybe I forgot to update...
Bonne soirée
AIUI it's not a Rosetta function - Rosetta gets FLARM traffic from the ATOM ground stations which do the decoding from FLARM and uplink as P3i(PilotAware protocol).
The ATOM stations are all automatically updated whenever PilotAware HQ releases new software to them - no one has to anything.
If you're not seeing FLARM on Rosetta, are you near ground stations?
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Good evening
I fly in France and unfortunately there are very few ATOM stations, if any at all...
I think that the flarm signals are recovered via the OGN by the network of my GSM and transmitted by rs232 and wifi to the Dynon and aircrew screens.
In the last few days these signals have disappeared from the Rosetta, hence my question.
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Good evening
I fly in France and unfortunately there are very few ATOM stations, if any at all...
I think that the flarm signals are recovered via the OGN by the network of my GSM and transmitted by rs232 and wifi to the Dynon and aircrew screens.
In the last few days these signals have disappeared from the Rosetta, hence my question.
Rosetta doesn't use the OGN. Reasons are explained elsewhere. OGN derived FLARM signals aren't therefore a Rosetta issue.
There is a big issue with the OGN that until the stations are all manually updated, there will be a loss of functionality.
In order to receive FLARM via iGrid you'd need some way of injecting it into iGrid?
From the PAW site:
Latest Software Release : 20230316
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Hello
I'm still having problems receiving flarms with my rosetta, but the PAW tab has turned red with P3I red and the barometer red too (see attached photos).
I can't access the metars either, but there's a radar image on the radar page.
I'm in the 20230316 version and I've also tried the beta version 20240205 same thing ...
If you have any idea how to get the information .... thank you in advance
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Red on P3i means no P3i is being received.
P3i will give you METARs, which is why there are no METARs.
Check the cable from the PAW to the P3i antenna. Are the antennas on the PAW itself, or are they internal/external ones? If the antenna is on the PAW, check it is seated properly.
Someone who knows the Rosetta better than I do will need to tell you how to check the P3i module itself...
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Thank you Steveu for your feedback
it doesn't seem to come from the antenna,I crossed the 2 antennas and the large antenna the one for 869.5 mhz put in place of the 1090mhz allows to receive adsb the PAW tab remains red even with the small antenna connected to the 869.5 mhz
my skills stop here and indeed a help to see if the internal module PAW is functional would be welcome .... thank you for your help
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Thank you Steveu for your feedback
it doesn't seem to come from the antenna,I crossed the 2 antennas and the large antenna the one for 869.5 mhz put in place of the 1090mhz allows to receive adsb the PAW tab remains red even with the small antenna connected to the 869.5 mhz
my skills stop here and indeed a help to see if the internal module PAW is functional would be welcome .... thank you for your help
It's not valid swap as the ADS-B signal is many, many times the size of the PAW one. You would probably get some ADS-B signal with no antenna at all.
However, my guess now is the P3i transceiver...
Time for a support email to PilotAware thremselves, or maybe they will post here.
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Thanks for your help
I write to support@PilotAware.com
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Hi DY691,
While your antenna swap won't 'improve' reception, it does imply that there is no continuity issue with the longer 869.5MHz antenna - which should go back on the P3i connector.
I have just checked the PilotAware database and your aircraft (HexID 38533C) was certainly transmitting P3i on 20231123, 20231207 and 20240128 if that helps - all received at site LFLG2 at ranges up to 30Km. There are no more recent reports recorded, but that might just reflect some problems we have had with recent efforts to upgrade the PilotAware servers.
I see from the database, that apart from a couple of reports from Versoud in early 2021, all of your reported P3i transmissions are from LFLG2, which seems to be the only ATOM site you have been within range of. That of course reflects the lack of ATOM sites in France. I'm guessing therefore that in the past, most of the Flarm Traffic you have been receiving has been via SafeSky. That being the case, it might be in your interest to consider promoting further ATOM development in the areas you fly. If you are interested in helping to expand the network, please get in touch via atom@pilotaware.com and mention my name.
LFLG2 by the way is currently 'active' and running the updated 20240321 firmware, - which includes the updated Flarm Protocol, so you should see directly rebroadcast Flarm traffic, provided both it and yourself are in range of that site and provided the protocol has been updated in the relevant local Flarm Units.
If you continue to have problems please get back in touch.
Best Regards
Peter
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Hello Peter
Thank you for your reply. I'm very pleased to learn that there is an ATOM station at LFLG.
Until recently I received the flarms via IGRID on my Dynon HDX wired link rs 232 and wifi on aircrew.
I don't use savefly in flight, it was just a check on the ground to see if it was working.
I have removed the Rosetta from my aircraft in order to check at home that it is working properly. I am at LFLE and there is a large glider centre 3km away,
For the moment the weather doesn't allow us to see much traffic.
what I don't understand is that until now the P3I has been green
Is there a simple way of checking that the internal transmission module is working properly, given that my skills are limited?
I'll contact you on the ATOM address for the rest.
Thank you and good day
Guy
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Bonne Apres-midi, Guy,
Hmm!
No PW ATOM at LFLE unfortunately.
Looking again at your original post, together with the 'error' reports on the 'Logging Screen', and the fact that both the 'P3i' and the 'Barometer' are reporting as 'Unavailable' on the 'Home' screen, there could be a connection between these and your lack of Flarm uplinks via P3i - especially if you have been flying within range of LFLG.
The P3i transceiver and the barometric pressure cell are both mounted on the PilotAware 'Bridge' and if, for example, the unit isn't getting a '3D' GPS fix (which yours says it was - at least at the time you took the screenshots), or the GNSS altitude (GPS based altitude) doesn't match the reported barometric altitude within defined limits or no barometric altitude is available due for example to a software issue or a defective Baro Module - the Bridge won't transmit P3i, which in turn won't trigger the LFLG ATOM into 'Uplink Mode', so you won't get their Flarm data -except potentially via iGRID, though that still might not report if the system hasn't been able to calculate your altitude. That would certainly account for you not receiving Flarm Uplinks from LFLG.
Unfortunately, the only easy way to tell if your Rosetta is transmitting is to check it locally against another Pilotaware, or run it near a local ground station and get me to check the database afterwards to see if its transmissions have been received.
Although this could, as I have said, indicate a Bridge fault, the Bridge is usually extremely reliable and if it isn't working, it is much more likely to be due to a corruption of the software such as due to a defective microSD card, so before thinking about replacing the Bridge, it would be worth carrying out a few simple tests as follows...
Firstly, (with the unit powered down) check that the MicroSD card is fully seated in its slot (between the two antenna connectors). It is a simple slide out - and push carefully back in. If you can then connect your Rosetta to a monitor (or TV screen) via the Rosetta's HDMI socket, power up the Rosetta and check that it runs right through the 'boot' sequence without showing any obvious errors on the monitor. You don't need to read everything - just look for any obvious error messages. If the boot sequence gets to the point where the screen stops and reports 'Login' that is the sequence finished and the unit should now be running. You should now be able to 'log in' to the PAW WiFi and check if the P3i and Barometer are still reporting 'Unavailable' or if they have gone green.
If necessary repeat the test by rebooting the unit outside with a clear view of the sky so it can get a good view of GPS satellites - then log in to the PAW WiFi with your phone or tablet and check again.
If there is still a problem, the next thing to try would be to load a new copy of the latest PAW software -available from https://pilotaware.lode.co.uk - and preferably loading it onto a new microSD card. If necessary, I can talk you through this process if we get to that point.
If the P3i and Barometer are still 'Unavailable' after loading new software, I would suggest returning your unit to PilotAware Support for full investigation, but try the simple tests first and let us see how we get on.
Best Regards
Peter
p.s. Let me know when you have read this, and I will split this discussion off into a new thread and leave Lee's original thread for issues directly related to the Flarm Protocol Update.
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Thanks Peter for the advice
I have read it carefully and you could remove this message so as not to generate any confusion.
i did the startup test on my tv apart a low volt message at the end of the startup with paw login at the end....
unfortunately I still have the red tabs I'm going to reinstall the file 20230316 and I'll keep you posted.
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Bonjour Guy,
Thanks for the feedback. I have now split this off from the previous thread.
The low-voltage report is noted, but shouldn't be the root of the problem as the P3i and Baro were previously showing 'red' without any Voltage Errors reported on your Home Screen.
Let me know once you have loaded and installed a new copy of the software. You may find it useful to reconnect the monitor during the initial boot so you can monitor progress as the software unpacks and loads (it takes about 15 to 20 minutes). Remember to take a note of your setup details (especially your licence key) before changing the card as these will need to be put back in manually once the new software has unpacked and installed - (though you can get them from your earlier screenshot if you forget).
Best Regards
Peter
p.s. I just remembered you have access to the Beta software, so it would be worth updating to the latest 20240205 Beta once you have the new card installed, though I don't expect that to resolve the issue.
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Hello
I bought a new micro sd card i formatted it then installed the software 20230316 then installed it again in the rosetta unfortunately thePAW remains red...
I am attaching the screenshots and there is still an error message on the logging page.
Do you have any ideas?
Sincerely
Guy
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Next photos
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Hi again Guy,
Thanks for the feedback.
Unfortunately, this post is by its very nature somewhat complex, but please bear with me.
From the logging screen messages, my money is still on a barometer failure, but the problem with remote diagnosis is trying to determine whether there is something else going on in the background that is causing the barometer to stop reporting.
If you were in the UK I'd just get you to send it back for testing, or send you a replacement Bridge to swap in, but I have spoken to Ash (who builds, tests and dispatches the units and tells me you have been in touch about installing another ATOM in the South of France). He advises that returning the unit to the UK from France for testing/repair can cause all sorts of problems with Customs (Douaniers) in both countries, so he advises that we should first try to ensure that the problem is definitely with the Bridge and not the Raspberry Pi.
To do this, we need to open the unit and check if there is a correct voltage on the Bridge (supplied from the Raspberry Pi motherboard).
If you are happy to give this a try, you need to proceed as follows...
Power down the unit and remove the power cable, microSD card and the antennas. Next remove the brass nut securing the P3i SMA terminal (which is part of the Bridge board) into the end of the case (nothing will move at this point).
Now open the top cap at the opposite end of the case. If it hasn't been opened before, you will need to split the PilotAware label along the obvious joint line across the top of the case with a sharp blade. Now gently press down the centre of the cap next to the joint to release the single securing clip and you can slide the top cap away from the body.
Having removed the cap, you now need to split the upper part of the case from the lower part. They are held together by two hidden clips along each side of the case. Start with the one which is mid-way between the audio jack socket and the now open top cover. Push a thin blade gently but firmly into the split line and the upper and lower case should pop apart. Try not to force the blade in too hard or you might break the clip. There is a second clip on the same side mid-way between the power and HDMI sockets, which should pop more easily once the first one is open. You can then do the same with the two clips on the opposite side (which are in exactly the same positions) and carefully remove the upper case - slipping it off the P3i antenna connector which you took the brass nut off earlier. You are now looking at the PilotAware Bridge, which is mounted on top of the Raspberry Pi.
The first thing to check is that the Bridge connector at the right side is fully seated onto all 40 pins of the Raspberry Pi GPIO connector (I'd be extremely surprised if it isn't). Next, temporarily refit the antenna to the P3i connector, replace the microSD card and power lead and power up the unit. You should now be able to clearly see the Red 'Power LED' on the motherboard under the P3i antenna connector and the disc activity LED next to it (which flashes green during boot or when writing data to the microSD card, but is otherwise 'unlit'). As the unit boots, you should also see a couple of LEDs start to flash on the underside of the Bridge at the opposite end to the antenna connector, but ignore these for the moment.
First, you will also see 3 sets of test points, one marked 'IN +5v and GND' and two marked 'OUT +5v and GND' . If you have a multimeter, you should be able to get a reading from these test points with your meter on the low voltage scale - mine are all reading 4.95 volts (with the unit powered off a USB battery pack). This will confirm whether the Bridge is receiving power from the Raspberry Pi.
Next go back to the LEDs on the underside of the Bridge. The one nearest the HDMI terminal is the P3i Transmit/Receive indicator, which will briefly flash red to indicate Transmit and Green to indicate Receive of P3i signals (once the Bridge starts functioning). The other LED (next to the RJ45 Ethernet Socket) is the Bridge Status LED (marked Status on the upper surface of the Board). This will initially flash Red 4 times, then used to progressively change to Green Flashes as each of the various stages became active in the same sequence as the list of reports on the Home Screen, so 1090 Rx, P3i T/Rx, Baro and GPS. This was changed some time ago, however, so that the Status LED simply stops flashing Red when each of the 4 stages becomes active, - so NO Green Flashes on the Status LED. I have just checked one of my test units and get 4 Reds at initial boot, then decreasing to zero as each stage becomes active. Having just brought mine back indoors, it has lost its GPS fix, so there is now just a single red flash (which equates to NO GPS as indicating on the Home Screen) then a long pause which equates to 3 'missing' flashes for the other 3 'working' functions, then a single red again for 'No GPS'. In your case, I would expect to see a blank equal to two flashes, then two red flashes in succession, though that depends on whether your unit is seeing any 1090 traffic.
Give this a try and let me know how you get on.
Best Regards
Peter
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Hello Peter
Thanks for your help ????
I started to disassemble the Rosetta (the explanations were very clear, well done).
In fact by opening the top cover the module came by itself I think the 40 pins were badly inserted...I did not go any further and by reinforcing the top module everything went back to normal.
I do have the 4 green tabs????????????
No gliders in sight this morning. I'll check this afternoon to see if the flarms are present.
Thanks for your help
Have a nice day
Best regards
Guy
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Well done Guy!
As I said earlier, I'm pretty sure I have never come across a Bridge coming loose from the GPIO pins in a Rosetta, though I have seen that happen a few times in the PAW Classic - usually because it had been dropped or shaken about by too many heavy landings ::).
I'm certainly glad I suggested opening the unit to check though. Good to see it back working again. Every day is a school day as they say.
It's great to get a positive outcome - think we can claim that as a result.
Let me know how it performs once you get back in the air.
A Bientot
Peter
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Hello
some news about the Rosetta
in flight the 4 tabs are green, I receive the adsb (airliners) and some aircraft in S/C mode with the yellow rectangle in red or green with their exadecimal addresses.
on the other hand, still no metars or meteo on the surrounding airfields.
I do get clouds on the radar page.
Still no flarms despite the green gsm link.
see you soon
Guy
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Hi
Can you please share the MAC/hostid address of your device
Thx
Lee
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Hi
Mac adress/Hostid
B827EB4F4147
Thx
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Bonjour Encore Guy,
Sorry, been busy the last couple of days so missed your post.
Hello
some news about the Rosetta
in flight the 4 tabs are green, I receive the adsb (airliners) and some aircraft in S/C mode with the yellow rectangle in red or green with their exadecimal addresses.
on the other hand, still no metars or meteo on the surrounding airfields.
I do get clouds on the radar page.
Still no flarms despite the green gsm link.
see you soon
Guy
That is disappointing!
I just had another look at the PilotAware Database. I can see Cellular Reports from 38533C for 20240329, 20240407 and 20240408, but other than those, the most recent ADSB reported from 38533C (by PWLFLG2) was on 20240328 and the most recent PAW (again by PWLFLG2) was way back on 20240128. This makes me wonder if the issue is (at least partly) related to distance and lack of ATOM stations in the area - though we did have a bit of trouble with the servers a week or so ago, so there could be some gaps in our data.
I see Lee (Admin) has asked for your unit's MAC. He has more extensive access to the system than I do, so may be able to find out more about what is going on. In the meantime - bearing in mind that radio and cellular reception will both be affected by terrain obscuration to varying extents while flying in such a mountainous area, - can you remind us how far away (approximately) your airfield at Chambery (LFLE) is from Grenoble (PWLFLG2) and how close (again approximately) you actually got to the ground station at Grenoble during your most recent flights.
Best Regards
Peter
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Hello Peter
My last flight near the LFLG satation was on 6 April. I passed almost vertically over the LFLG field at 6500ft to the south at 1002 UTC and passed north again at 6500ft almost vertically over the LFLG field at 1323 UTC.
the distance as the crow flies between LFLE and LFLG is 40km but there is a lot of relief between them
I think that the flights on 7 and 8 April were not really flights but ground tests at LFLE to see if I was receiving gliders flying within 5km of my position ... unfortunately no gliders were reported...
Thanks for your help
Have a nice evening
Guy
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Postscript:
This is a very puzzling case ???
Nothing showing on the database for any mode from 38533C from 6th April.
You say that the flights on 7th and 8th April were 'not really flights but ground tests at LFLE (Chambery)' - so I wouldn't expect to find any reports of reception for either of those dates from PWLFLG2 (Grenoble) at 40Km away, which is consistent with my comment that the only reports for those dates were Cellular.
Looking on the PilotAware Playback Site https://playback.pilotaware.com/playback/groundstations/ (...which is based on data collected by the PilotAware ATOM-GRID Network and via iGRID Cellular connection), your aircraft 'pops up' (via its cellular signal) on the ground at Gap Tallard at 16:17 (UTC ?) on 20240407 - a long way from Chambery!! It seems to remain there on the ground at Gap Tallard for about 2 minutes before disappearing 'offline' and I can find no other reports from it that day. In order to get there, by air, you would (presumably) have flown from Chambery right past Grenoble, yet there is no PAW (or ADSB) report on the database from PWLFLG2 to report such a flight. (That is explained by your comments, sent while I was investigating and typing this response, but why would your aircraft show up at Gap Tallard in the first place?)
The next time I can find your aircraft is the following day (20240408), reporting very briefly - again via cellular, but for a few seconds only, back at Chambery at 09:40 UTC before disappearing and reappearing (again via Cellular) apparently heading north past Pontcharra at 09:45. Your comment about the ground tests would explain the unit popping up on the ground at Chambery, but why would it reappear 5 minutes later about 10Km away at Pontcharra - unless that is something to do with the cellular masts that your phone was connecting to during your ground tests.
For completeness, I have just logged in directly to the ATOM at LFLG and it appears to be working normally, reporting both ADSB and Flarm traffic - as I would expect it to.
Hopefully Lee can throw some light on what may be going on.
Best Regards and Bonne Soiree
Peter
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Thank you for your efforts
My flight on the 6th was to Gap ...not the 7th as it was a Sunday and the restaurant is closed on Sundays...
I can confirm that the following days were ground tests.
hoping that Lee will find an explanation
Thanks again
Guy
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The Saga Continues!
I had previously disregarded checking via the Ground Station Replay Tool for 6th April as there was no data reported in the PilotAware database for that date - presumably due to the previously reported server issues.
Wrong decision ::) !
Looking again at the Groundstation Replay Tool with this new information, I can track your aircraft on PilotAware and Cellular heading south-west towards LFLG from just north of Tencin - reporting at that point on screen as at ~ 5000ft, though your virtual radar 'profile' clearly shows your height as 6000ft plus - but with significant altitude fluctuations*. You are reporting from the same point as connected to the LFLG ATOM as you passed over Laval and Saint Mury-Monteymond, then LFLG lost contact with your PilotAware briefly (probably due to terrain) as you passed south of Lac de Freydieres. It picked you up again very briefly as you crossed the D111 Route de Chamrousse for the first time, then seems to have lost contact with you again (on PilotAware) a few seconds later at 10.04 as you were about to cross the Route de Chamrousse for the second time. Your track, however continues via cellular all the way to your landing at Gap Tallard at 10.32.
* at this time of night, I can't remember what the reason for that is - might be a GPS or Baro issue - perhaps Lee can advise.
I then see you again (via Cellular) taking off from Gap at 13.05 and can follow you all the way back to your landing at Chambery - mainly on cellular, except for a few small breaks in cellular signal from where you pop back up on PilotAware at 13.20 as you pass over the ridge into the valley south of Grenoble and you then drop out of P3i contact again at 13.24 very near the point at which LFLG first picked you up on P3i on your outward flight. Your track then continues (on Cellular only) all the way back to Chambery.
This means that your PilotAware and iGRID were both working as expected during both flights on 6th April, and confirms that PAW uplink is limited along that route (due to terrain) to the area between Tenom and La Petoune de Belledonne and along the Grenoble Valley in close proximity to the only existing ATOM Station at LFLG - which is exactly as I would expect.
Not sure how I can see the aircraft at Gap on 7th April via a Cellular report, though this looks like a genuine report. I guess it must be a glitch in the data.
The (Cellular) reports I see from your aircraft on the ground at Chambery on 8th April are obviously from when you were looking for the local gliders. The only reason I can think of for not seeing any would be that the local OGN station(s), the gliders themselves, or both, hadn't yet updated their software to the new Flarm Protocol, so they weren't 'visible, or available for uplink locally via iGRID.
This now makes much more sense :)
Best Regards
Peter
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Further Update added Thursday Morning at 08.27(UK time)
Hi Guy,
Reflecting on this again in the morning, when I've had a cup of tea and my brain has woken up a bit, the sudden drops in altitude on the track profiles almost certainly reflect drops in connectivity - either between your phone and available cell towers on your mobile network or between your PilotAware and local ATOM, OGN or other sites, though the reasons for these drops can be complex and warrant further investigation.
I will send you a PM.
Regards
Peter
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Yesterday's flight to and from Montelimar: the flarms seem to have returned via the shared GSM connection. :)