PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: MikeD on December 04, 2016, 04:56:21 pm
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Can anyone point me to the instructions on how we integrate FLARM using the latest version. We don't have the FLARM Mouse in our motor glider but do have the LX Navigation Flarm Mini Box - Non-IGC which is capable of driving secondary Flarm displays, PDA and also LX Voice Module (via LX Flarm Splitter or Splitting Unit)
Thanks in advance.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
I ordered on of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351825013804 and a RJ12 connector to the free wires. You only need the Ground and Receive of the cable to connect to Ground and Transmit of the FLARM device.
Then you need to configure the correct USB port o the config page od the PAW to be used fro FLARM.
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Hi Ian, MikeD
I would recommend connecting the TX/RX/GND
Although at the moment PilotAware does not transmit to the FLARM device, I can foresee the possibility of programming the FLARM from the PilotAware device - eg ICAO code.
Thx
Lee
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Ian.Lee,
Many thanks for the info. I will start making tracks to integrate (or try to!) with our FLARM unit. Because we operate from a gliding site the combination of PAW and FLARM will be of great benefit to all.
Mike
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I hope to help... OK I have just integrated My FLARM RedBox with My PAW.... (See Photo) The instillation you see in the Photo is all covered inside the aircraft panel behind a hinged door for access and updates. The IPad is fixed to the door (Photo to follow) All very neat and tidy.
Here is how I connected. You need a USB to RS232 converter See Link
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162222711346?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
It comes with open weirs on the end so you need to crimp a RJ11/RJ12 to the ends As Lee has mention above connect GRD/RX/TX You must get the 6pin RJ11/RJ12 as some have 4 pins and will not do your job.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200931321588?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
You will also be able to complete your FLARM updates via your PC with the same cable.
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Richard,
Thanks very much for the info, that installation looks very good. Every little bit of information makes things a little easier for me to understand and will help eliminate the inevitable trial and error cycle.
Mike
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I now have a USB to RS232 converter cable and the 6 pin RJ12 along with a crimping tool. Could someone guide me with the correct wire colour sequence within the RJ12 and possibly any testing required before flight?
Regrds
Mike
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Mike
If no one replays befor I get home I will let you know the wire order. have you got a copy if the FLARM redbox instruction, this tells you which pins to connect
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Richard,
That would be appreciated. We have the ' LX Navigation Flarm Mini Box - Non-IGC' so I will start searching for the pin-out info.
Mike
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Mike
OK... You need to connect from your USB To RS232 converter lead
GRD (Black)....... rj12 pin 1
TXD (Orange)..... rj12 Pin 2
RXD (Yellow)..... rj 12 Pin3
The wire colour is from the diagram link suplyed for the RS232 to USB the colours may be difrent from an alternative RS232 supplier please check with the supplier.
The Diagram can be found on page 7 from the link below
http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/DataSheets/Cables/DS_USB_RS232_CABLES.pdf
The Pin order for the rj12 for LX FLARM are shown on the Redbox instructions page 10 See link below
http://lxnavigation.com/downloads/manuals/Flarm/Flarm-red-Box-SD-IGC-26-6-2013.pdf
Looking at the instructions on the FLARM Mini box it indicates the pins out are the same so it should work, they are on page 3 and states .....
• Pin 6 power input (8-16V), 4 and 1 GND (near to RF connector), 2 data in, 3 data out, 5 power for
external display
You do not need the power on pin 6. Do not bother with pin 4 & 5 ether.
Instructions here ....
http://www.cssleszno.eu/files/LXFlarmMiniBox.pdf
Hopefully you have now all the info needed. Just make sure you put the rj12 the correct way around when you crimp the plug onto your RS232 usb. (I did my first one the wrong way around) The wires are a little tricky to push into the rj12 plug too
If you are still un-sure we could make one up for you.
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Thanks for posting Richard
Are we sure the cable colors are equivalent to your lead ?
I think tx/rx are green and white on my lead, I could be wrong
Thx
Lee
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While on this subject and in the same vein. I currently have a Power Flarm connected to an MGL iEFIS via RS232. The MGL iEFIS has a menu setting to accept Power FLARM input and does so without hesitation. I also have the PAW that currently via WiFi provides all the PAW features to SkyDemon on an iPAD via WiFi.
The latest PAW apparently allows the addition of a FLARM Dongle - which product is this? However by adding this to the PAW will I guess use up all my USB ports.
So to get an RS232 output in a compatible Power FLARM output I would need an USB - RS232 converter and an extra USB port. The essential elements are therefore to obtain a dual full FLARM, ADS-B to both the iEFIS and SkyDemon are:
1) if I replaced the Power FLARM with a FLARM Dongle into the PAW. ( hopefully selling the former on EBay to fund the latter)
2) added a USB Hub to give an additional USB port
3) added a USB to RS232 converter ( already got one)
4) connected RS232 to MGL iEFIS using existing Power FLARM setting. ( Noting that both PAW and Power FLARM can communicate to SkyDemon via FLARM protocol and Butterfly Connect can do RS232 to SkyDemon via WiFi also)
5) Assuming RS232 out from PAW is a simple TX - RX, GND and not asynchronous.
Theory says it should work and as the claim is that the PAW has four potential output nodes then A = WiFi to SkyDemon, B = WiFi for Radar output, C = RS232 to iEFIS and D = the weather data you have not developed yet!!
So if this is doable will someone let me know please.
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Thanks for posting Richard
Are we sure the cable colors are equivalent to your lead ?
I think tx/rx are green and white on my lead, I could be wrong
Thx
Lee
Hi Lee
The wire colur is correct as long as Mike has got the correct RS232 lead and not an alternative. To be sure please check with the RS232 to USB suplyer for the wiring diagram.
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Lee,
Richard's colours are right for the FTDI lead (same as mine). As Richard has said, Mike obviously needs to check if his lead is not the same.
Regards
Peter
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Richard,
Thanks for all you trouble, the info you supplied is really appreciated. I tried to obtain the USB -RS232 cable from the ebay link but it was unavailable so I purchased one from RS (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/6877828/). I will check the wire colours.
Mike
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Same lead Mike - colours should therefore be the same.
Regards
Peter
p.s. well done Richard.
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Peter/Mike
Yes that's the correct lead. Have fun.....
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To add an lustration to my last post that hopefully explains the intention better.
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While on this subject and in the same vein. I currently have a Power Flarm connected to an MGL iEFIS via RS232. The MGL iEFIS has a menu setting to accept Power FLARM input and does so without hesitation. I also have the PAW that currently via WiFi provides all the PAW features to SkyDemon on an iPAD via WiFi.
The latest PAW apparently allows the addition of a FLARM Dongle - which product is this? However by adding this to the PAW will I guess use up all my USB ports.
So to get an RS232 output in a compatible Power FLARM output I would need an USB - RS232 converter and an extra USB port. The essential elements are therefore to obtain a dual full FLARM, ADS-B to both the iEFIS and SkyDemon are:
1) if I replaced the Power FLARM with a FLARM Dongle into the PAW. ( hopefully selling the former on EBay to fund the latter)
2) added a USB Hub to give an additional USB port
3) added a USB to RS232 converter ( already got one)
4) connected RS232 to MGL iEFIS using existing Power FLARM setting. ( Noting that both PAW and Power FLARM can communicate to SkyDemon via FLARM protocol and Butterfly Connect can do RS232 to SkyDemon via WiFi also)
5) Assuming RS232 out from PAW is a simple TX - RX, GND and not asynchronous.
Theory says it should work and as the claim is that the PAW has four potential output nodes then A = WiFi to SkyDemon, B = WiFi for Radar output, C = RS232 to iEFIS and D = the weather data you have not developed yet!!
So if this is doable will someone let me know please.
Hi drvale,
Here's me thinking I have a load of kit. Looks like you're trying to outdo me!
We generally suggest using a basic FLARM transceiver (LXNav flarmMouse in my case - others are using LXNavigation FLARM Redbox) supplying data in to PAW via an RS232 to USB converter. In your case, as you already have PowerFlarm feeding your iEFIS via RS232, I would have thought it would be easy to simply 'split' the data feed where it comes out of your PowerFLARM, with one feed going to your iEFIS and the other, via an RS232 to USB converter to PAW. This should work, though I haven't tested it, but am about to run tests (hopefully in the next few days) to split the data from a PowerFLARM Core to feed the existing FLARM display and a PilotAware (to let the owner receive P3i and also run multiple displays via WiFi I will let you know how I get on.
PAW can serve 4 clients via WiFi concurrently BTW. This does NOT affect USB inputs/outputs. I seem to recall Lee saying some time back that you can't add a USB hub to the Pi. I can't remember why and might be wrong though. I'm sure he will come on and advise.
Regards
Peter
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Peter,
In theory this sounds a dead simple solution and maybe at this RS232 level would work wonderfully! My formal life involved controlling robots with RS232 and splitting caused all sorts of issues, however we were using handshaking as well RTS etc.
FLARM somewhere in its documents says that the signal should not be split, but of course that could just mean Air Avionics worried they may not be able to rip off customers. After all it is already split because the Air Connect can send to WiFi and RS232 to MGL as there are two ports!. In my simple mind this is already split!
I can of course thinking about this logically and having had a couple of glasses of red wine resolve this simply - MAYBE The Butterfly RS232 WiFi is no longer used as the iPAd now is dedicated to the PAW. SO Spare PAW port needs a USB / RS232 converter and Connect FLARM TXD to PAW RCD plus GND.
Only slight (hopefully) issue is the Power FLARM also throws out ADS-B stuff which means I would be duplicating data arriving at the PAW. Also I would not be getting mode C & S in the MGL as it is only taking data from the POwer FLARM.
So here is another possible.
Power FLARM TXD to Spare PAW port via RS232 RCD then using same RS232 connector, TXD output MGL iEFIS. Theory says the PAW becomes the source of both data sets to WiFi and also RS232 to MGL. Sounds sound, but not sure from a PAW software aspect.
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Peter,
In theory this sounds a dead simple solution and maybe at this RS232 level would work wonderfully! My formal life involved controlling robots with RS232 and splitting caused all sorts of issues, however we were using handshaking as well RTS etc.
FLARM somewhere in its documents says that the signal should not be split, but of course that could just mean Air Avionics worried they may not be able to rip off customers. After all it is already split because the Air Connect can send to WiFi and RS232 to MGL as there are two ports!. In my simple mind this is already split!
FWIW, I used to run a PFC with 'AA' splitter to feed Butterfly and a Flarm LED display, but gave up due to problems with the PFC and moved over to PilotAware. I have now 'expanded' to incorporate Flarm again and use a simple splitter to split the data going from my FlarmMouse to my LXNav LED display to also go via an RS232 to USB converter to feed the PAW and it seems to work fine.
I can of course thinking about this logically and having had a couple of glasses of red wine resolve this simply - MAYBE The Butterfly RS232 WiFi is no longer used as the iPAd now is dedicated to the PAW. SO Spare PAW port needs a USB / RS232 converter and Connect FLARM TXD to PAW RCD plus GND.
That's effectively what I'm hoping to do with the PowerFlarm Core. Our CFI wants to be able to run multiple tablet displays when he's off touring with his better half. He has already tried parallelling 2 x 'Butterflies' but that doesn't work, so hopefully replacing the Butterfly with PAW will let him connect up to 4 devices via PAW WiFi and also see P3i aircraft as a bonus.
Only slight (hopefully) issue is the Power FLARM also throws out ADS-B stuff which means I would be duplicating data arriving at the PAW.
I have already discussed this with Lee and we are pretty sure this should not cause a problem, but the proof will of course be in the testing!
Also I would not be getting mode C & S in the MGL as it is only taking data from the POwer FLARM.
So you are presumably using a 'Basic' PowerFlarm rather than PF Core?
So here is another possible.
Power FLARM TXD to Spare PAW port via RS232 RCD then using same RS232 connector, TXD output MGL iEFIS. Theory says the PAW becomes the source of both data sets to WiFi and also RS232 to MGL. Sounds sound, but not sure from a PAW software aspect.
I'm not up to speed with data supply to your MGL and not something I have tried, so can't really advise. I have a suspicion that trying to supply data in and back out via the same port might be an issue. Let me do the PFC tests and I will have a better idea as to what works and what doesn't. Bear with me.
Regards
Peter
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Drvale,
I have done splitting on tests with PAW and othe devices, works fine. No hand-shaking involved, or it would never work. Don't try and drive too many devices as it may cause the signal to degrade.
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Peter,
Thanks for rapid response. PF is Core, currently uses Port 1 for RS232 to MGL and Port 2 for the Air Connect. I will plan to take Port 2 to the PAW which will then give me at least the extra of FLARM info on the iPad. But of course it would be nice to match both sets of data.
So now all I need to think about is taking the Radar Display into the MGL, just needs a PAL output from cheap WiFi enabled browser and direct into 1 of 4 of the Video inputs on the MGL.
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Peter,
Thanks for rapid response. PF is Core, currently uses Port 1 for RS232 to MGL and Port 2 for the Air Connect. I will plan to take Port 2 to the PAW which will then give me at least the extra of FLARM info on the iPad. But of course it would be nice to match both sets of data.
Hi David,
That should make things even easier as you won't actually be splitting the signal from Data Port 2 (unless you are also running a flarm display of course).
You mentioned above Also I would not be getting mode C & S in the MGL as it is only taking data from the Power FLARM.
, but the PFC provides Mode C/S data out via both data ports concurrently, so should provide this data to your MGL via the RS232 link on Data Port 1. Or is the problem with the MGL not able to decode / interpret data for 'bearingless' targets?
Peter
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Peter,
Good question on bearing less targets. If you have an example of RS232 bearing less targets data then I may be able to test this on the MGL simulator and also ask the question at MGL.
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Better idea... Two USB to RS232 dongles on the PAW. Power Flarm in on one, out to MGL on the other. Power Flarm supplies GPS so no GPS needed on the PAW. MGL then has all traffic, so does the tablet. PAW acts as Air Connect.
Possible?
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Hi Paul,
I had considered your option, which in theory should certainly work, but would like to complete my tests with PFCore first to make sure there are no conflicts between the two sets of data, before committing David to put all his eggs in one basket. AFAIK no-one has yet run PAW with PFC - or if they have I can't remember seeing any reports. Leaving his MGL on PFC Port 1 meantime means it will still be fully functional even if he had to turn PAW off for any reason. I spoke to our CFI yesterday (the PFC is in his plane) and he is really keen to go ahead as soon as we can get things organised, but unfortunately he is a very busy man - especially at weekends. I am going down again today to try to sort out wiring etc. and hope to get things set up and tested fully by next weekend. I will report back as soon as I have something positive to report.
Regards meantime
Peter
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Peter,
Really do appreciate this and am very sure if the theory evolves into reality then this has to be of benefit to many.
My MGL is away in S.Sfrica having a processor upgrade to give me virtual vision and my Falco is enjoying winter in the S of France so will not get a chance to test for real until February. It is that time of year when winter mods are made. Also built cooling fans into an iPad RAM mount if anyone is interested.
Thanks again.
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I have been sent a PDF leaflet today on the new Flarm OEM Modules.....looks very interesting...Is this your secret mission that you've working on Lee....I think it would fit very nicely in a Raspberry Pi box on top of the Bridge...!! :-X
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I have been sent a PDF leaflet today on the new Flarm OEM Modules.....looks very interesting...Is this your secret mission that you've working on Lee....I think it would fit very nicely in a Raspberry Pi box on top of the Bridge...!! :-X
Hi Brinzlee
Can you send a copy of the PDF ?
I am pretty sure this is a TRANSMIT Only IIRC
Thx
Lee
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I have been sent a PDF leaflet today on the new Flarm OEM Modules.....looks very interesting...Is this your secret mission that you've working on Lee....I think it would fit very nicely in a Raspberry Pi box on top of the Bridge...!! :-X
I'm sure I could find a Photocopier somewhere if you fancy leaving a copy on the copier in error.........
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Hi Guys,
Just in case anybody missed it, I have now fitted one of my PAWs to our CFI's flexwing and connected it to his PowerFLARM Core. We did several test flight over last weekend and all seems to work as expected. See post in the other thread here....
http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,553.msg9012.html#msg9012
Regards
Peter
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Hi Lee
Document sent to your email address as it was too large to post on here !!
Kind regards
Brinsley