PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: peteD on July 28, 2016, 11:36:32 am
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Where is the documentation on what the mode s rings signify? can't seem to find anything.
FWIW I don't like them ...primarily because the Alt diff is now barely visible...surely this is the most important item!
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Hi Pete
Are you referring to SkyDemon representation ?
If so, I think you need to ask Tim Dawson regarding the way the data is represented, I cannot control that I am afraid.
Firstly the rings are trying to signify a threat level NOT A DISTANCE.
It is practiaclly impossible to infer a distance from a signal strength due to the vagaries of installations and transponder power outputs.
The relative height on the other hand DOES provide an accurate representation, between yourself and the reported target.
How best to represent the data ?
PocketFMS/EasyVFRprovides alert banners of Red/Amber/Green showing relative height
SkyDemon & SkyMap use the rings
You will recall in the last release I subverted the messages sent to SkyDemon, to make it appear that an aircraft was piggybacked to your own. SkyDemon said that this was not a good idea, because I was not using the ring method which is what they would prefer - hence I reverted to their wishes
Thx
Lee
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Lee,
I have to say, I agree with Pete about the Mode S ring altitude text. As you know, I much preferred your original colour changing aircraft symbols, but understand why you had to change. I am getting used to the rings but did mean to speak to you about the altitude text which is far too small, and a really bad colour - I really struggle to read it in the plane. If it means getting Tim D to make the text bigger, I would consider that essential otherwise we may need to rethink how we display Mode S to SD. The existing text is almost useless. As Pete says, it is essential, but is so small that it distracts attention for too long trying to read the screen at the very point when you should be looking outside.
Regards
Peter
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Hi Peter & Pete
I agree with what you are saying regarding the text size, only SkyDemon can change this (if there is no config option in SD)
Maybe you should both ask Tim his thoughts, I have impemented the Protocol as per Tim's wishes, so over to him I would say.
One other thought I have been discussing with others, and that is to add the relative height as part of the audio for bearingless targets, so in other words
from: Traffic Warning
to: Traffic Warning, 200 ft above
for example
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Ok I will have another look at the SD setting options and if nothing there I will raise it with Tim. IIRC we have had several requests for relative altitude to be reported on audio for Mode S. This would remove the need to look at the screen completely and direct visual scan (and potential avoiding action) automatically. Bit more work for Demi-Lee though!
Regards
Peter
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Bit more work for Demi-Lee though!
Luckily no!
All the sound samples are recorded into a complete 'aviation dictionary'
So I can construct sentences from the dictionary - besides, saves on paying royalties ;D
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Just posted this on SkyDemon forum.....see if we get a response
http://forums.skydemon.aero/Topic19115.aspx
Could the Mode S audio be selectable either on or off.....I love the idea though....
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Hi All,
I have also added a post on the SD Forum to explain the background, support Brinzlee and politely request that Tim consider increasing the relative altitude text size (and/or add a clearly contrasting background) to make the text easier to read.
We can only await his response.
Peter
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Hi all,
Yes,apologies, i was referring to SD.
Lee, I understand your point about signal strength and proximity, but the "rings" presentation makes a big deal about it whilst hardly showing the alt diff, seems the wrong way round..... I also realise that much of this out of your control.
I'll have a look on the SD forum and see what Tim has to say
Alt diff. audio seems good idea!
Thanks
Pete
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Pete,
The difficulty is making sure you 'see' the notification of danger aircraft as early as possible. With ADSB and P3i this is easy as they are presented as moving aircraft symbols, which spring to your attention as soon as they appear - principally because they are moving.
With bearingless targets, remembering that not everybody has audio (e.g. early PAW adopters who may still be running PiB based systems and others), it is essential to present the information in a literally 'eye catching' manner, so you see it as early as possible. Lee's initial attempt was to do this using a small aircraft 'piggybacked' on top of your own (best place IMHO to catch your attention). This aircraft changed colour from green/amber/red to indicate increasing threat level as it approached. This was however 'in conflict' with the 'official' FLARM protocol used by SkyDemon, hence why Lee has had to change back and adopt their coloured concentric rings, whether we actually like them or not.
Unfortunately changes to SkyDemon are completely out of our hands, hence our 'polite requests' to Tim Dawson (of SkyDemon) to ask him to help us out.
Regards
Peter
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Just in from Tim Dawson at SkyDemon
"Yes, I reckon we can probably do something about this. To refresh my memory, would you be able to provide two screenshots of the SkyDemon display from PilotAware with your personal configuration, the first being the display of a normal target and the second being the display of a bearingless one? I want to compare the font sizes and think about how we might improve the display of bearingless target.
I'm pleased to hear about the switch to the standard display of bearingless targets. One should not ignore the success of Flarm, with tens of thousands of units in circulation, who (for all their faults) have honed this protocol pretty well over the years. I do agree with you that the rings should not really be interpreted as "range" rings, but they do have their purpose as the pilot can see them increasing/decreasing.
In the meantime I will have a think about display improvement."
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One thing I have noticed when you had the older mode s piggy back style of aircraft on top of your own for an alert, as well as the altitude separation you had the aircraft registration. I notice this in now missing, all that shows are the red, amber or green rings and the altitude. Is that something that is part of the flarm protocol for less clutter or is it something that can be reintroduced....It is nice to know the tail number if its possible.
Kind regards
Brinsley
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it was removed because I recall it messed up the SkyDemon deisplay.
Tim Dawson extended the format of the identifier of the ICAO code, normally in flarm you have
,012345, ...
it was extended by Tim to :-
,012345!G-ABCD, ...
but when I used this in the Bearlingless message, it seemed to not produce what was expected,
I would have to retest to be sure what it was
Thx
Lee
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So I have mode s set to long range and +/- 2000ft but get rings displayed at alt diff of greater than 2000 ,...5.6 & 3.5 were displayed today for instance, surely they should be filtered out?
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So I have mode s set to long range and +/- 2000ft but get rings displayed at alt diff of greater than 2000 ,...5.6 & 3.5 were displayed today for instance, surely they should be filtered out?
Hi Pete,
Yes these should be filtered out, this does not make sense.
Can you provide your .trk file for the flight so I can analyse the data ?
Thx
Lee
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Certainly...file is to large to attach, where shall i send it?
Update: sent to support
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Gents
Will somebody be posting the screenshots as per Tim's requests ?
Thx
Lee
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Done!
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Certainly...file is to large to attach, where shall i send it?
Update: sent to support
Hi Pete,
thanks for the data, after receiving this,
I realised of course that for bearingless targets (in the logging format) this only contains
the relative altitude.
The other bits are tailored for the specific NAV devices, but anyway looking at the altitudes
I see nothing more than 603 metres, here is the message
$PFLAA,1,0,0,603,1,,,,,,0*73
and the most negative
$PFLAA,1,0,0,-608,1,,,,,,0*55
So this does not tally with the display :o
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Ok, thanks for looking....maybe I misread the figures...which brings us back to my original post!
Have posted screenshots for Tim, which hopefully makes the point about legibility
Thanks
Pete
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Ok, thanks for looking....maybe I misread the figures...which brings us back to my original post!
Have posted screenshots for Tim, which hopefully makes the point about legibility
Thanks
Pete
OK, if you see this again, try to get a screnshot
Thx
Lee
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Hi Lee / All,
Tim Dawson has just posted this on the SD forum. Lee, I presume you will take up his request for examples. Obviously much better coming from you.
"Thanks all. I've done the easy bit which is to make the font size and colours consistent between bearingless and "normal" targets. Inclusion of the ID is slightly trickier though and I don't want to change that code without being able to test it. As far as I recall, PowerFlarm never sends ID with bearingless targets so that codepath will not have been tested.
Perhaps Lee you could provide some example sentences with bearingless Mode S going on? I recall that PowerFlarm never sends information on more than one bearingless target at the same time, does that still hold true for PilotAware?"
Regards
Peter
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Hi Lee
Not sure if you have seen this from SkyDemon and a message to you Lee
"Thanks all. I've done the easy bit which is to make the font size and colours consistent between bearingless and "normal" targets. Inclusion of the ID is slightly trickier though and I don't want to change that code without being able to test it. As far as I recall, PowerFlarm never sends ID with bearingless targets so that codepath will not have been tested.
Perhaps Lee you could provide some example sentences with bearingless Mode S going on? I recall that PowerFlarm never sends information on more than one bearingless target at the same time, does that still hold true for PilotAware? "
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Yes thanks, seen this and respnded
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Sorry, I've been missing from any PAW stuff for a while, too many other things going on!
I actually brought this up at Aero Expo, though it was written into a book of suggestions as Tim wasn't on the stand at the time. I suggested that all the "information", both for positional and bearingless targets, be written in a white box with a black surround, to give it a bit of contrast rather than blending in with any background detail. I pointed it out on the screen they had at the show.
If someone in touch with Tim can make that suggestion again please...!
I don't see why the registration can't be displayed as well in this box for bearingless targets. What doesn't help is that the altitude for the bearingless targets appears randomly around the ring. I spoke to Lee about this ages ago - there were rings before there was an overlaid aircraft - in fact, I have one of my PAW units with the rings from the first time around. :o
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OK, i have some screen shots of mode s displaying greater than the 2000+/- (as selected) but had the mode s detect set to testing(noisy)...would that be why?
thanks
Pete
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OK, i have some screen shots of mode s displaying greater than the 2000+/- (as selected) but had the mode s detect set to testing(noisy)...would that be why?
thanks
Pete
yup, testing is just that - wide open filters, its a way of ensuring after making some Software changes, I do not need to sit around waiting for an A/C to encroach my space, I can flip to this and run tests, I have debated removing this, but when demonstrating - I like to show this to people so they can see what they will get
Thx
Lee
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OK thanks, didn't realise mode s detect setting "testing" over rides other settings, thought it was just a sensitivity setting....that explains it!
Thanks
Pete
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Tim has adjusted the code in SkyDemon now, so the latest update of SD should show a more pronounced height above the Mode S rings. Is it possible to check Lee if the Registration ID also works, I recall you saying you had disabled it in the current PAW software
Kind regards
Brinsley
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Tim has adjusted the code in SkyDemon now, so the latest update of SD should show a more pronounced height above the Mode S rings. Is it possible to check Lee if the Registration ID also works, I recall you saying you had disabled it in the current PAW software
Kind regards
Brinsley
I have an upcoming release, I will test and enable if all is OK in the release
Thx
Lee
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Tim has adjusted the code in SkyDemon now, so the latest update of SD should show a more pronounced height above the Mode S rings. Is it possible to check Lee if the Registration ID also works, I recall you saying you had disabled it in the current PAW software
Kind regards
Brinsley
I can confirm that this is now working, displaying bigger text and the Reg.
This will be in the next PilotAware release
Thx
Lee
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Nice one Lee, That should make a big difference.
Regards
Peter
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Well done Lee....The bigger text already makes a significant difference.....the Reg ID is the icing on the cake !!
Thanks Boys !!
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I take it the new PAW release is out now?
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I think it is imminent. The larger bolder text was an adjustment in the SkyDemon Code which was released yesterday.....the registration id will show on the next PilotAware software update
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Thanks, thought I had missed something ;D