PilotAware
British Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: stephenmelody on September 11, 2015, 12:11:56 pm
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Hi All,
I've been trialing my PilotAware on my windowsill (trying to pick up BobD as he goes past).
Every 20 minutes or so, the "CollisionAware is Using Your Location" bar on my iPad disappears and I have to go back into the app and reconnect it.
Has anyone else experienced something similar?
I've got no way of seeing the terminal output at the moment, so I can't tell if any errors are coming up, or even if any errors would come up. I begrudge paying maplins £24.99 for a HDMI / DVI cable to connect it to my work monitor when I can get one from amazon for £4.99.
Any help would be, helpful...
Cheers,
SM.
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The ADS-B side appears to continue working... I've still got commercial aircraft moving around on my screen.
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Every 20 minutes or so, the "CollisionAware is Using Your Location" bar on my iPad disappears and I have to go back into the app and reconnect it.
Hi Stephen,
That is definitely something I have not seen.
Can you describe your entire setup ?
When you say it stops using your location, is the app still running in the background ?
Thx
Lee
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I get this too, but as far as I'm aware, it is only the status bar that disappears, and not the supply of GPS or Collision data, because as soon as I power off my PilotAware box, SkyDemon complains that GPS data is lost.
Do you get SD complaining too, or does it still have GPS lock?
Only other issue I've had is that the ARF has failed to Transmit on occasion, and that seems to be if you attempt to connect to the PilotAware too quickly - it probably could do with a 'watchdog' LED - the ARF does have a Tx on LED facility - I'll have a play, as the Tx burst is so brief I doubt the LED will be lit long enough to notice it'll need something to hold the LED for a bit or just latch it on (SCR) at the first burst, as once it's started to transmit it seems to be fine.
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Actually there could be an issue here.
Stephen, are you saying that the green slider bar in CollisionAware has moved to the off position ?
This means that the connectivity to PilotAware was lost for this application.
Efectively we have 2 WiFi connections
1. CollisionAware <=> PilotAware
and
2. PilotAware <=> Skydemon
this would imply that connection (1) was broken, if you did have a monitor connected, you would see a message saying
listening for connection on 2001
Indicating that the connection was indeed lost
I am planning to replace CollisionAware on connection (1) with GPS NMEA, which can supply TCP & UDP connections,
then I plan to make (1) a UDP connection, this does not complain if there are intermittant drops, whereas TCP
connections require a connection to be remade, much less tolerant
One other note, PilotAware WiFi runs on channel 9 at a low 5mW power, I wonder if this could be suffering from higher
power WiFi routers in the same vicinity possibly on the same channel ?
Thx
Lee
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Hi Lee,
Here's my kit:
iPad mini 2 with Skydemon
PowerPOD and ARF
ADS-B receiver is this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311367816597?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Wifi is this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231483794170?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
The app is working in the background, but P3I is showing Disconnected, I can flick it back to Connected and the status bar returns.
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Yes - it's moved to Off.
Could be affected by the corporate wifi here, not sure what channel it's running on (might be able to find out).
Wonder if Trapdoor had this issue in flight, as then I'd imagine that would rule out wifi?
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Haven't flown with it yet.
Just monitored it on the console and it drops out with a 'socket Timeout' and as you say, the CollisionAware app then shows as being disconnected.
I hadn't actually thought about it being an issue because I've not flown with it yet, so assumed (wrongly?) because SD didn't complain about a loss of GPS and the fact that traffic was still being shown, it was working and I thought perhaps it was something overwriting the blue status line.....
I'm sure it's not being affected by other wifi here ... It's only my kit which is on Channel 1 and channel 10 ... But it's feasible that it's seeing a more distant wifi AP that is transient and kicking it off? I'll run up my InSSIDer app on the MacBook later and have a look to see what's about, but considering signal strengths etc, I'd be very surprised if it was a that.
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Hi All
Can I ask how you are supplying power to the RPI ?
Thx
Lee
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A nice big (12,000mAh 2.1A) Power Bank - RPi isn't complaining about power issues with the cable I'm currently using (although was with the first one I tried immediately after the build) and the WiFi podule isn't getting terribly warm.
Is it easy to change the WiFi Channel Number? I have a very low sig 40Mz bandwidth user (a neighbour judging by the SSID name) across channels 4-12 (git) and I'd quite like to change to Channel 1 which is one of my AP's I can switch off. Again, perhaps a config option in the web interface would be handy?
Mark.
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Is it easy to change the WiFi Channel Number? I have a very low sig 40Mz bandwidth user (a neighbour judging by the SSID name) across channels 4-12 (git) and I'd quite like to change to Channel 1 which is one of my AP's I can switch off. Again, perhaps a config option in the web interface would be handy?
OK, looks like I need to add something into the web interface.
Maybe I should add a power level at the same time.
At the moment it is right down at 5mW, but I see a high signal strength
Thx
Lee
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Just been up in the sky, no drop outs. But I was flying over BobD's residence where he had his system setup and I got no hits.
Going to boot it off the power pack when I get home to see if there's anything on the console that's telling me it's got an issue...
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Phew
Everytime i hear about dropouts I get very nervous
I have spent a lot of time tuning to mitigate these issues, ie power level
Mode g not mode n, etc
Hopefully interference in your home
As mentioned previously maybe a selectable channel and power level
Thx
Lee
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I was testing mine at work, I'm going to trial it in my house now. Nothing else round me on channel 9.
(there's nothing on BBC1, BBC2, ITV or Channel 4 for that matter...)
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Still getting dropouts at home. I'm going flying again tomorrow, I'll check it again in the air.
Today's airborne trial isn't very valid as I rebooted it a couple of times in the air, wasn't sure it had booted correctly on airplane power, so switched to my powerpack, which I know works.
I'll report back.
Interestingly, this didn't occur with ARF disconnected / not installed. With just the DVB-T receiver, it stayed up and stable for about 5 hours...
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For what it's worth, I had the dropout problem on my second unit, in my friends aircraft last week, and on the ground. My Iphone (tester)also seemed to take a long time to get an IP address from PilotAware, quite a few seconds longer than my other unit. We thought it was probably the Wi-Fi dongle, so I replaced it earlier this week with a new one, and in testing on the ground Skydemon got an IP much quicker, and no more dropouts.
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Interestingly, this didn't occur with ARF disconnected / not installed. With just the DVB-T receiver, it stayed up and stable for about 5 hours...
Hmm, this really does sound like a power issue doesn't it.
When the ARF pulses, it draws an additional 330mA, if it pulls down the power rail it will reboot the RPi.
You mentioned you had a good quality supply, the USB cable also needs thick wire for power, I think the best you can get is 20 AWG, the smaller the number, the thicker the wire.
Do you know the spec for the USB cable ?
I think we need a bespoke power cable, which has a very low resistance, and hence low voltage drop. It only requires the power and ground, the data is unused.
If anyone can find a good reference please post a link
I have been using these
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=271929181905&category=123422&pm=1&ds=0&t=1442039556565
Thx
Lee
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Power cable could be an issue on mine, have ordered a 20AWG one to see if that helps clear up the problem. Might also build a second device for testing purposes.
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I am trying some experiments
1. Increasing power of RPi WiFi output to 50mW
this was previously set to 5mW, I will look to make this
configurable through the web interface at some point
2. decreasing wireless speed from mode g to mode b
mode g is 54MBit/s and mode b is 11MBit/s
I would hope that the lower the data rate the less likely
a dropout occurs, and 11MBit/s is still way overkill for the
data rate we require.
so expect a patch upload shortly after I have ran mine
for a few hours
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Just reporting back, running the initial release of Pi code, running 2 units, 1 connected to an iPad, the other to an Android phone, I had 2 units running for ~ 2 hours last night with no drop out problems.
Both using 20AWG power cables and 10,000mah Anker bettery packs.
Cheers
Kev
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We have changed to a short, thick power cable run from a 2.5 amp supply off the mains, and it seems to have improved things - John P had his collisionaware program drop out this morning - I have had no problems today. We will continue running the units on the ground.
Dave T
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I have had one of our aware's running almost constant throughout the day. Collision aware has dropped out maybe 6-7 times consistently over 1-2 hours of go-fly mode. The blue band across the top of the page disappears from Skydemon. I only have a 2.1 amp wall charger. I have tried 3 different leads and also out in the garden to avoid any wifi confliction. I perhaps could say wifi confliction isn't the issue. I have now ordered a 20awg cable and I'm pretty sure my aircraft power supply is greater than 2.1 amps and it charges my iPhone dam quick. No help needed I suppose just yet as I need to try a higher Amperage first. But it's being a little fussy with me at this time and I thought It may be worth sharing.
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I have had one of our aware's running almost constant throughout the day. Collision aware has dropped out maybe 6-7 times consistently over 1-2 hours of go-fly mode. The blue band across the top of the page disappears from Skydemon. I only have a 2.1 amp wall charger. I have tried 3 different leads and also out in the garden to avoid any wifi confliction. I perhaps could say wifi confliction isn't the issue. I have now ordered a 20awg cable and I'm pretty sure my aircraft power supply is greater than 2.1 amps and it charges my iPhone dam quick. No help needed I suppose just yet as I need to try a higher Amperage first. But it's being a little fussy with me at this time and I thought It may be worth sharing.
This is a good datapoint, thanks for the analysis
OK, there seems to be an issue here on long runs, if CollisionAware drops out, this is actually unrelated to skyDemon to be honest.
I presume when you go back to collisionaware the green slider has gone back to the off mode ?
I will try the same soak test here locally.
Can you describe the spec of the iOS device you are using ?
Thx
Lee
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It is an iPad mini (first edition) with cellular+sim 16gb. After, when I find out that CollisionAware has dropped out. I double click the home button to view open pages, select CollisionAware, as CollisionAware opens the slider will slide left and immediately disconnect after the page opens. Earlier today I started with enable live data while flying. Now after turning this off around midday I don't see this as any cause of concern in my case
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Hi jp,
Just to clarify.
You are running skydemon, and when set to offline mode,
the problem with collisionaware turning off goes away ?
Thx
Lee
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Morning, No. I know now that Skydemon in online or offline makes no difference to the dropout. It drops out whatever mode its in
thanks John
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Hi
I have 3 iPads running now.
1. Mini 1st gen inc cellular inc GPS
2. Standard retina display no cellular no GPS
3. Mini retina display inc cellular inc GPS
None have Skydemon opened but all connected to a single pie, all connected through CollisionAware, all synced with 192.168.1.1 the big ipad with no GPS connection has not dropped out within an hour of my test. Both the mini's with internal GPS have dropped put at least twice within my hours test. Is CollisionAware only able to link one pie to one iPad at one time? as I have tried and can only get one iPad to connect at once.
Thanks John
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A bit of analysing, could the ipad internal GPS be going to sleep if no movment being detected? I hope so cause thats not an issue then in an aircraft. WiFi is not a cause because the big iPad never lost connection with CollisionAware when all 3 were on at once with the same shared pie WiFi link.
So does anone know if the iPad internal GPS goes into a sleep mode?
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Is there a difference when running with the internal iPad GPS to an external GPS? I'm running with an external GPS, John is running with an internal GPS. I have heat soak tested 6 PilotAwares here on the ground using our iPad and an external dual 150 GPS. Each one has been on about 3 hours with no problems. I'm going to suggest John and I swap units to try again and see if he has the same problems with a different unit. Maybe he has a dodgy wi fi dongle. We can check this - we have enough units to try and swap.
Did I read somewhere on the net that if using the internal iPad GPS and the unit is stationery the GPS or location services will stop updating? Would this cause CollisionAware to switch off, or will CollisionAware switch off only if the wi fi signal is interrupted somehow?
Dave T
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Did I read somewhere on the net that if using the internal iPad GPS and the unit is stationery the GPS or location services will stop updating? Would this cause CollisionAware to switch off, or will CollisionAware switch off only if the wi fi signal is interrupted somehow?
CollisionAware will only switch to OFF if the socket connection to PilotAware is unavailable for a period of time.
This could be due to
1. WiFi disconnect
2. PilotAware crashed or busy (unlikely)
One alternative you could try is using a different GPS sharing application
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nmea-gps/id590868529?mt=8
I have also tested this APP as a replacement to CollisionAware
In NMEAgps you configure as per the snapshot below
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I have improved CollisionAware so that if it disconnects, it immediatley tries to reconnect,
and continues attempting reconnects.
This should help with the transitional dropouts.
I have uploaded to the iTunes store, but unfortunately it usually takes about 10 days
to get through Apple procedures
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Thanks Lee
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Morning
I though I would try this mnae app. I can't complete the configuration. Am I missing something please.
Thanks John
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Morning
I though I would try this mnae app. I can't complete the configuration. Am I missing something please.
Thanks John
Hi John
There is a conflict when using this App which I have yet been unable to resolve :-(
In the last version 20150912, when PilotAware was connected, SD, RunwayHD were unable to connect to their respective servers because the 3G connection was disabled.
By enabling the 3G connection, this app is no longer able to send its co-ordinate information to PilotAware.
I thought it was more important to have the 3G connection working, based upon the fact this app performed the same function as CollisionAware
so for the time being, please ignore this app and continue to use CollisionAware.
iTunes will hopefully release collisionAware 0.3 shortly, which is very robust and re-creates
a TCP connection if it is temporarily disconnected.
Apologies for the confusion.
Thx
Lee
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Thanks
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quick Follow up :)
I investigated this, and it can be done, here are the settings you need to make in NMEAgps
under the settings Menu
NMEA WI-FI SERVER
Active : on
Server Protocol : UDP no broadcast
Server Port : 2001
Target Ip for UDP : 192.168.1.1
Screenshot below
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Hey Lee,
after waiting for the delivery fairies to turn up, here's my current test rig, at home on the mains power:
Cable:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B010XWJBSQ
Power Supply:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00K0LBMWE
I'm hoping this will remove any chances of power being an issue. I've set up the iPad and CollisionAware connected to PilotAware at 15:55pm today.
I'm going to head out in a couple of hours but will check to see if it's still up between now and then.
Cheers,
Steve.
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CollisionAware disconnected (blue bar at top gone and slider to "off") at 16:30... :'( :'( :'(
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Hi Stephen
Your setup looks excellent, good power supply and cable.
There are issues with CollisionAware, I have submitted a new release to iTunes, but awaiting their review
to complete.
In parallel I have been testing a USB/GPS dongle, and I have been getting very good results.
Having the USB connected to PilotAware - removes the issue regarding CollisionAware.
As soon as CollisionAware(0.3) is available, please update and let me know if this improves matters
Thx
Lee
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I am having exactly the same issue with it dropping out when next to routers on the same frequency which happen to be over at the airport.....In fact when I'm at the flying club their router is so powerful it prevents me from even trying to connect to the pi hotspot even when its 40 meters away.....at home I have no issues !! Is there anyway to change the wifi channel number out of curiosity on the software
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Hi Stephen
Your setup looks excellent, good power supply and cable.
There are issues with CollisionAware, I have submitted a new release to iTunes, but awaiting their review
to complete.
In parallel I have been testing a USB/GPS dongle, and I have been getting very good results.
Having the USB connected to PilotAware - removes the issue regarding CollisionAware.
As soon as CollisionAware(0.3) is available, please update and let me know if this improves matters
Thx
Lee
Cheers Lee,
I'll wait for the new version of CollisionAware, see if that helps things out.
Appreciate all your work.
SM.
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John Parker and I have had numerous issues with the collisionaware app dropping out, locking up etc.
As suggested by Lee we have converted to NMEA gps - bingo - stable and good.
We have also had issues with the SD cards not being reliably formatted which we have resolved.
Tonight we have two very reliable units and we have undertaken successful drive by tests on P3i.
We have two more units ready to go
Result
Dave t
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John Parker and I have had numerous issues with the collisionaware app dropping out, locking up etc.
As suggested by Lee we have converted to NMEA gps - bingo - stable and good.
We have also had issues with the SD cards not being reliably formatted which we have resolved.
Tonight we have two very reliable units and we have undertaken successful drive by tests on P3i.
We have two more units ready to go
Result
Dave t
Very pleased to hear that :)
i think the next release of CollisionAware 0.3 will solve a lot of these issues
I have also been using a ublox7 and it is working great
Thx
Lee
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How do we determine which version of CollisionAware we have installed?
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How do we determine which version of CollisionAware we have installed?
That is a good question!
No idea
But it is probably 0.2, the version in QA is 0.3
Thx
Lee
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I think it fair to say Dave and I have had solid results today. The MNEA app works great and never unintentionally dropped out today on my internal GPS and Dave's external GPS. I had to make an Hours trip tonight and an hour back. I had SD and PA running all the time and both time I pass Dave house it pick it up as traffic. I feeling confident enough to leave it running all day outside tomorrow and hopefully Sunday as no rain is forecast if you want to flyby Fenland.
The iPad does need a little more respect. As PilotAware has command of the GPS at some point in the chain its not so tolerant of you switching screens in nav mode if you want to check stuff for long and will loose GPS. Saying that it does reconnect very quick.
Dare I say I'm feeling very happy with it,and tomorrows our flying test day
John
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Just to reiterate John's comments.
I have now successfully loaded NMEA GPS deleted Collision Aware and was amazed at the speed at which SD was able to lock in to "Seeking Satellites".
I have had 2 units running for 2hrs , one on iPad and the other on iPhone5, no issues at all.
Tomorrow is the big test flying with Falcoguy and John.
Thanks for sharing all the info on the forum.
Thanks Lee for the quick response to Config settings of NMEA GPS.
;D
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If you're flying West, my device will be on all day just SSE of hucknall disused...
John, i got your PM, I'll try and call you Sunday if possible - bit late tonight.
Cheers,
SM
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This is great news on NMEA GPS.
I think I am looking at taking the same UDP approach in CollisionAware, and I will suggest the same to ChrisMills for the Android version
In my configuration I am belt & two pairs of braces !
I am running NMEA-GPS + CollisionAware + USB/GPS
It is a bit ridiculous, but I want to test all 3 in parallel
Thx
Lee
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I have left the set-up on top of one of my steel containers all day for perfect line of sight. I put it on at 10.00 this morning and now it still working very happily recieving adsb and p3i with the MNEA app. With the second unit in my AC I flew off and we discovered that from on the ground to the AC in the air it's not very far, about a mile range on p3i trying to keep line of sight with the antenna.
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I have left the set-up on top of one of my steel containers all day for perfect line of sight. I put it on at 10.00 this morning and now it still working very happily recieving adsb and p3i with the MNEA app. With the second unit in my AC I flew off and we discovered that from on the ground to the AC in the air it's not very far, about a mile range on p3i trying to keep line of sight with the antenna.
Hi John,
I might be a bit stupid :P
Are you saying the two units can see each other, or cannot see each other ?
Thx
Lee
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Just re-read your posting.
So you are saying you are getting 1 mile line of sight range.
I have to say, worryingly, that is exactly the kind of range I got after I had destroyed the amplifier on the ARF
when I connected 5V to the power
When the power amp is destroyed the output goes from 500mW down to 10mW
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When I had mine on the ground at Fenland, I picked up G-CDFL from Folkingham Disused (at 3000ft indicated), which is about 16Nm or 29km...
I'm using the PowerPod from WirelessThings instead of the Chinese one.
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25km is the kind of range I have seen
Stephen can you Clarify, was G-CDFL transmitting P3I, ADS-B, or both ?
It is specifically P3I we are referring to here.
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No idea... not sure who on here was the pilot, didn't get to speak to them, only saw them arrive.
I assume that it was P3I, but I could be wrong.
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Just looked on ginfo, it has a transponder, so maybe part of the adsb trial ?
Can anyone clarify the status of G-CDFL ?
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We have a mode S transponder in GBXEX (a lovely Trig TT31), but it's not outputting ADS-B... we have no GPS source in the cockpit for it to do so.
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Yes they see each other and yes 1 mile. :o
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Hi
I think have had the same problem. Either CollisionAware connects and then disconnects, so I get the message in Sky Demon telling me that it looking for GPS satellites or CollisionAware does not connect at all. I have monitored the 192.168.1.1 status screen, which shows a good 9-10 satellite signal, while Sky Demon is moaning about a lack of a GPS signal.
I think it is an iPad issue for me - something to do with Location Services. Following advice on a forum (which I now can't find), I switch off Location Services. Shut down my iPad, waited 10 seconds and then rebooted. I then connected the WIFI to my RPI and reopened location services. After doing this 5 times, I managed to get CollisionAware to connect and have completed more than two hours of flight without the seeking GPS message appearing in SkyDemon.
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Hi
I think have had the same problem. Either CollisionAware connects and then disconnects, so I get the message in Sky Demon telling me that it looking for GPS satellites or CollisionAware does not connect at all. I have monitored the 192.168.1.1 status screen, which shows a good 9-10 satellite signal, while Sky Demon is moaning about a lack of a GPS signal.
I think it is an iPad issue for me - something to do with Location Services. Following advice on a forum (which I now can't find), I switch off Location Services. Shut down my iPad, waited 10 seconds and then rebooted. I then connected the WIFI to my RPI and reopened location services. After doing this 5 times, I managed to get CollisionAware to connect and have completed more than two hours of flight without the seeking GPS message appearing in SkyDemon.
I thoroughly recommend using a GPS dongle, this is a much better solution
Thx
Lee
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Lee
I do use a GPS dongle as recommended. My IPad mini is WIFI only and does not have a GPS chip.
Best regards
Chris
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I do use a GPS dongle as recommended. My IPad mini is WIFI only and does not have a GPS chip.
Hi Chris,
I am a bit confused because you said this...
Either CollisionAware connects and then disconnects,
You only run CollisioAware when you do not have a GPS dongle, ie these GPS sources are mutually exclusive.
I wonder if this is your problem ?
I should probably put something in the software to ignore CollisionAware, if a GPS dongle is present
Thx
Lee
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I will be more specific! I have a GPS USB dongle on my RPI, which runs PAW. This is the only GPS source on my IPAD mini. My understanding is that Collision Aware feeds GPS and ADS-B data from my RPI to Sky Demon.
I have also tried the NMEA GPS app, using the settings recommended on this thread. All I get in the spinning IOS icon telling me it is waiting for something, but SkyDemon does show little white planes and my location anyway. I am new to all of this and will now go back to the documentation to see what I have missed...
I also have a Dual GPS which I could use instead of the USB GPS, but have not yet worked out how to make that work with PAW and Sky Demon.
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I will be more specific! I have a GPS USB dongle on my RPI, which runs PAW. This is the only GPS source on my IPAD mini. My understanding is that Collision Aware feeds GPS and ADS-B data from my RPI to Sky Demon.
I have also tried the NMEA GPS app, using the settings recommended on this thread. All I get in the spinning IOS icon telling me it is waiting for something, but SkyDemon does show little white planes and my location anyway. I am new to all of this and will now go back to the documentation to see what I have missed...
I also have a Dual GPS which I could use instead of the USB GPS, but have not yet worked out how to make that work with PAW and Sky Demon.
Hi Chris,
Just to be clear, if you have a USB GPS Dongle, you should not run CollisionAware.
CollisionAware is an app to share the GPS data from your IOS device to PAW.
In your case PAW has its own GPS source in the dongle, therefore CollisionAware should
definitely not be used.
I will fix the software so when a GPS dongle is detected, PAW ignores the GPS data coming from CollisionAware.
Thx
Lee