PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: diamondsvein on April 12, 2017, 08:17:21 pm
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Hello Forum, I am seriously considering buying the PA Classic for my Diamond DA40 TDI. I will not make it a "permanent" installation, but rather a "portable" one. First I need to know which optional antennas etc. I should buy. I do not want the unit on the glareshield (other units there already). Thinking about hanging on the rear side of the pass. seatback, with the following under the top part of the canopy "seeing" the sky and as much of other traffic as possible: GPS Mouse (extra purchase), Tuned Low Profile P3i antenna (extra purchase, mounted on side of canopy so as to be vertical) or the existing antenna with extension cable (extra purchase), RTL-SDR antenna. The RTL-SDR antenna and the existing P3i antenna (if using this) will be mounted pointing down and located between the pilot and the front seat passenger's heads.
Any comments?
Any better proposals?
Anyone already using it in a DA40?
Any minimum distance between the various antennas/between a transmitting antenna and the GPS mouse?
Should I have any concern with a transmitting antenna close to my head?
FLARM Mouse: Which type does forum members have experience with, for connection to the PA? Does it contain a GPS, meaning it must "see" the sky?
Thanks vm in advance! Svein
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Nice aircraft Svein,
Personally I fly a flexwing trike, but have advised on a variety of installations since PAWs inception.
If you want to keep your installation portable, you could try fitting the PAW 'right way up' to the roof just behind your front canopy with Velcro or similar with its P3i antenna attached but hanging down. The 1090MHz antenna can quite easily be cut down to about half its length (actually 68 mm from the coax attachment point) and the coax can also be shortened by removing the base and trimming the coax to a short length (about 100mm or so) at this end, leaving the connecting plug intact. It can then be mounted to the bottom of the PAW case with velcro or double sided tape so both antennas will hang down. In this position both antennas will have a good view forwards (from where the main risk usually comes) and provided you have kept the unit 'right way up' the standard GPS should also work too, so you should have no need to change it or for yet another cable. Hopefully all you will need to do is arrange power and audio leads.
I would have no worries about transmit antenna proximity. P3i power is limited to 500mW on a 1% duty cycle, so very short data packets only.
A search for 'ADSB antenna' from the Forum Home Page will provide loads of useful advice. This thread...
http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,615.msg7596.html#msg7596
also contains a lot of good advice and is well worth reading.
Any questions feel free to come back to me.
Regards
Peter
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Thank you very much for your good and quick reply, Peter. Just aft of the opening canopy, in the roof center, there are vent openings, a loadspeaker and a lamp, and having the antennas here will give only a quite narrow free sector forward (pilot and front seat pass's heads in the way - lots of water in my head!). I see two alternatives: Velcro fitting to the canopy itself a little forward of its aft edge, or making a lightweight, thin "beam" of epoxy and fiberglass extending forward from the roof and under the canopy. I am not permitted to drill any holes anywhere in the aircraft (how I miss my previous homebuilt!), but it should be possible to use the screw holes for the loadspeaker also for this purpose. When there is a will, there is a way ....
Again, thanks vm - also for the link to more antenna info. And: Great-looking trike!
Flarm Mouse: Anyone with any experience?
Best regards, Svein
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Svein,
Yes, I run FlarmMouse integrated to my PilotAware. What do you want to know?
Peter
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Hello again, Peter,
What make is your Flarm Mouse, and where can I buy it (internet shop, I assume)?
Must it "see" the sky, i.e. does it contain a GPS?
Does it run on 12 V, or the same 5.1 V as PAW?
Happy Easter to you and everybody on this Forum.
Best regards, Svein
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Hi Stein,
I run an LX Nav FlarmMouse, which is 12volt and has its own inbuilt GPS. I bought it in the UK from a firm called NavBoys www.navboys.com. They were the cheapest, though UK prices have increased substantially due to the drop in the £ sterling against the € Euro. They are manufactured in Slovenia.
Because the GPS and antenna are inbuilt/directly attached, it does require a clear view of the sky, but it is very small.
Another alternative would be the LX Navigation (different company - also in Slovenia) FLARM Red Box, which can be remotely mounted.
Connection is via a USB to RS232 serial cable (FTDI-USB-RS232-WE-1800-BT 0.0 recommended) from your PilotAware unit, joined to a 6 core data cable with an RJ12 connector and splitter to connect into the FlarmMouse data system. PilotAware is already designed to combine the two data streams and present combined traffic to the Nav Display.
I can give you the connection details if you decide you want to do this.
Regards
Peter
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Thank you very much, Peter. I may indeed ask for your further assistance on how to Connect the Flarm Mouse to PAW, but can you please first tell me: Does the Flarm Mouse (any of those two you mention, or all types of Flarm Mouse - if more are available) only receive location data from other airplanes equipped with FLARM, or will the Mouse also send my aircraft's location and altitude out so that those other Aircraft also can "see" me?
Best regards, Svein - now off to the airport to see how I can fit all this!
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The ones I have mentioned are both FLARM transceivers - as are pretty much all FLARM units, though basic FLARM is very low power (10mW) and designed to work over a range of only 2-3 Kms. For longer range coverage FLARM recommend their PowerFLARM Core products, which are much more expensive and duplicate much of what your PilotAware already does. Take a look at their website at www.flarm.com.
I meant to ask by the way, where do you operate from? (General area)
Regards
Peter
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Your info is very much appreciated. I have now found that the opening canopy is fairly flat in the central part. I will therefore use a double-suctionplate Delkin Mount that I have, to hold a light epoxy-fiberglass or plexiglass plate onto which I attach the PAW unit and the Flarm Mouse. This Delkin Mount has excellent holding capability, and I can adjust its location forward as much as I want, or more over to the left side if I fly without passenger. The canopy top is painted white on the outside, so the units will be well shielded from sun heat.
I plan to order the PAW and a Flarm Mouse very soon. When received, I will ask for your kind guidance on connecting the two.
I have my Aircraft homebased at the Cannes Mandelieu airport in south of France (LFMD). My wife and I have a house in the vicinity and spend much time there, but we are resident in Norway. As the DA40 is a great touring airplane, we fly all around Western Europe and to the islands in the Med. I have not been to the UK with it yet, but I was there twice with my homebuilt Europa. I see that you are in Edinborough - what a great city. Will never forget the Tattoo one wonderful, warm, moonlit evening many years ago!
Best regards, Svein
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No problem Svein,
You should be able to source a FlarmMouse cheaper on the continent than we can currently do here in the UK. When you are ready to connect it up either come back on here or drop me a PM and I'll help with the connection info.
Regards
Peter
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Aye Svein
You got that right, it is many years ago since we had a wonderful, warm, moonlit evening in Edinburgh. ::) ;D
Alan
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Good morning, Peter in Edinburgh,
I would now appreciate very much any advice you can give me om how to connect the LXNAV FlarmMouse to PAW. I am not an electronics expert at all, so you may have to do it the detailed way, if you will be so kind. I expect to receive the FM from Clubowze by IDF Développement in France this week. I have already received the PAW and tested it - works fine with SkyDemon (only high-flying commercial planes flying our my house at the time, so other traffic will be tested later).
Best regards,
Svein
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Hi Svein,
Did you get the FTDI USB to Serial Level RS232 converter lead I advised in my earlier post?
I'm just about to head back to Edinburgh from my Daughter's (West Coast of Scotland) - by car 🚗 not plane. If you have the FTDI lead I'll forward the connection details tonight. If you need to order one, I'd suggest CPC Farnell or RS Components (both U.K.) or a reliable source as most of the 'from China' ones on eBay are likely to be 'fakes'.
You also need a length of 6-core data cable with 6-way RJ12 plug at one end and bare wires at the other. If you don't want to 'crimp' connectors on, buy a 6-core, 6-way male to male lead and cut it in half.
More details when I get home.
Regards meantime
Peter
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Thanks, Peter,
No rush, please - not received the FM yet! I am off to an electronics shop in 30 minutes, hope to get the cables there.
Best regards,
Svein
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Hi again, Peter,
See my posting just a few minutes ago in reply to your latest one.
The socket for the data cable connector (female) on the PAW has 8 contacts, not 6.
?????
Best regards,
Svein
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That is the RJ45 LAN port, you will not be using that.
The cable will connect to a spare USB port on the PAW and the other end, 6 pin RJ12, will connect the adapter that comes with the FLARM Mouse. Not at home so cannot give you the wire connections.
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Hi Peter,
Update on two previous postings today:
I have purchased a "Serial port adapter USB to RS232 - USB Powered Windows/Mac/Linus" with USB at one end and a 5 + 4 male pin plug at the other. I also bought a matching female socket for this plug, for soldering of connecting cable leads.
I also have a RJ45 8-core male-to-male cable which fits into the data cable socket on the PAW.
Best regards,
Svein
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Thank you for the clarification regarding the cable, Peter. The RJ45 is one that I had already, so I will buy the correct plug and cable.
Best regards,
Svein
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Svein,
Can you post a link / name / photo of your USB to Serial RS232 lead please.
The way this works is that the USB end plugs into the spare port on PilotAware (normally top left, which is PORT 1 - important as this port has to be configured to 'FLARM In' on the PilotAware (PAW) Configure Screen.
You then need an RJ12 6-pole 6-core data lead which plugs into the splitter supplied with the FlarmMouse. This splitter is normally used to connect the FlarmMouse Power Lead and feed FLARM data from the FlarmMouse to an external FLARM display, but we are going to divert this data into PilotAware instead. You then need to connect the ground of the RJ12 cable to the ground of the RS232 lead and the Data OUT of the RJ12 cable to the Data IN of the serial end of the RS232 to USB lead - which is why I want to check which lead you have, though the Data IN of the serial cable is normally Pin 2 and the Ground normally Pin 5 - see attachment. The pinouts for the FlarmMouse lead are clearly shown in Section 5.2 of the FlarmMouse Manual, which comes with the unit, but can also be downloaded from...
http://lxnav.com/downloads/manuals/FlarmMouseManualEnglishVer0101.pdf (also available in German or French)
Regards
Peter
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Thanks vm, Peter.
USB to RS232: Attached are a photo of the Plexgear spec that came with the cable, and a photo of the RS232 plug.
Question: Would it be easier/less subject to doubt about which pin goes where, to solder the two leads from the FM directly to the corresponding leads from a cable that has USB plugs at both ends, by cutting off the plug that is not required and identify the leads by the colours - they are standard, are they not, or not always?
Best regards,
Svein
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Hi Svein,
That cable looks OK.
Re your Q. - Its not that simple I'm afraid. The USB cable from/to PilotAware has to include a 'USB to RS232 Serial converter chip' - the bit that does the 'conversion magic'.
With the FTDI cable I originally recommended, the chip that does this is inside the USB end of the cable, with the other end just bare wires, two of which the black (Ground) and yellow (Rx Data) connect to the ground (Pin 6) and Tx Data (Pin 4) from the FM data cable.
With your cable, the converter chip is almost certainly located inside the Male Serial Connector, so you will need to connect the FM data lead ground (Pin 6) to the D-Sub 9 ground (Pin 5) and the FM Data Out (Pin 4) to the D-Sub 9 Data Rx (Pin 2) by using your female 'half'. Remember you are taking data out of the FM and 'receiving' it into PAW.
I know it sounds complicated but in reality it isn't. I got it the wrong way round 1st time and it didn't work. Swapped to the right cables - FM Data Out to PAW Data IN and off it went, with no damage to either unit.
Regards
Peter
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Hi Peter,
Thank you for your patience - I am learning something new all the time.
I better get it correct the first time, so I have now ordered the FTDI-USB-RS232-WE-1800-BT 0.0 which you recommended, from CPC Farnell's French outlet. Also a RJ12 6-core male-male cable from same vendor.
When I receive the LXNAV FlarmMouse, I will use your instructions to figure out what-is-what before I connect it all. You may expect to hear from me in that process ....
Thanks again, best regards,
Svein
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Hi Peter,
Without going into all the details: The FlarmMouse has not yet arrived - I do not yet know when I will receive it.
Best regards,
Svein
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OK Svein,
I'm heading off to Finland next week, but should hopefully have internet access. Keep me posted and let me know when it arrives.
Regards
Peter
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Good morning, Peter,
At long last, I have now received the LXNav FlarmMouse, and would appreciate very much your advice on connecting it to the PAW.
Best regards,
Svein
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Hi Svein,
Glad your FlarmMouse has arrived. I'm busy making up a Flarm Integration Instruction Sheet, so if you can bear with me I'll send you a draft copy as sooon as it's ready and you can tell me what you think of it.
Regards
Peter
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That will be very Nice, Peter. No rush, please!
Best regards,
Svein
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Hi Peter,
Back in France after trip to Scandinavia for a fly-in. PAW worked fine as far as I could judge (some people still fly withoit transponder, but ATC kept an eye out for me). Missed active FLARM, however - do you know when your information about integration with PAW may be available?
Best regards,
Svein
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Hi again Svein,
Sorry, running a little behind due to other development testing. I will try to get an outline to you in the next couple of days.
Regards
Peter
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Svein,
Finally finished a fairly polished 'draft' for connecting the FlarmMouse to PAW. It still needs a photo or two, but you should be able to work from it. If you PM me your e-mail address I will send it to you. I would appreciate your comments.
Regards
Peter
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Peter,
Please send the draft instructions on connecting FlarmMouse to PAW to (already received).
Brgds,
Svein
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Svein, Not a good idea to publish email addresses on a forum. I would suggest you edit the post to remove your email details, and send your contact details in a Personal Message. Bots harvest forums for email addresses and you end up getting spam.
Cheers
Ian
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Hi Svein,
Document is on its way to you, so you can remove the address from your previous post as Ian suggests.
Regards
Peter
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Thanks vm, Ian. Message modified.
Brgda
Svein