PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: CliveJ on January 03, 2024, 09:32:07 am
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Not much going on on the forums, does that mean all is well with everyone?
Being a bit lazy here as lots of stuff to do so not trawled through to find the answers myself. Thought the enlightened can probably answer quickly.
Flying the other day it was very quiet so not many aircraft to fly near to see how the PAW classic (new Rasp Pi upgrade) external antennas and 4G dongle (external antennas) was really performing.
I had some indications that suggested not all was well when i was looking at the different PAW pages using a browser:
1/
1090 unavailable 183856 (+0), Home page
2/
the TXP box that is usually Green was often red, radar screen
Screenshots below
Thanks Clive
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1090 unavailable 183856 (+0), is the SDR/USB cable fully seated in the USB slot? Is that USB slot configured correctly? Is the antenna cable connected?
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Hi All
You said 4g dongle, do you really mean 4g dongle, or a wifi dongle connected to a cellular hotspot ?
I would have said a power issue, but that does not appear to be reported
The track file for the flight may give more information
Thx
Lee
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Thanks for the replies. Didn't appear to be any problem with the power, though I'm not sure how that would manifest itself. Isn't the wifi link the first thing to drop when the power is too low?
I'm going to have a look at the antenna connection/cable etc today.
I've got a 4G cellular dongle plugged into the Classic on a USB. The Dongle has an external pad antenna connected by two cables.
It's signal to start with was really consistent but it seems to be dropping out a bit lately. Works better across the channel than here.
It would be really good to see where the traffic is coming from?......maybe an extra column on the Traffic Page showing where each contact is coming from?
Currently I can have a screen full and I don't know what's working and what isn't, what's coming from where.
Antenna, ground station, Atom, iGrid.....
thanks guys, Regards, Clive
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There's been a fair bit of advice on 4G dongles and not to power them from the PAW USBs. You need to plug the 4G dongle into a different power source.
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It would be really good to see where the traffic is coming from?......maybe an extra column on the Traffic Page showing where each contact is coming from?
Currently I can have a screen full and I don't know what's working and what isn't, what's coming from where.
Antenna, ground station, Atom, iGrid.....
Isn't it this attached, column circled in blue? It says where the ping is coming from?
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The 4g dongles we have tested, draw upto 800ma
This is way too much for the usb ports
USB is only rated at 500ma
The combined draw of usb current will be too much
Please power the 4g dongle externally
Also if you are using a dual port power pack, remember that again, the max current is shared across those ports
Thx
Lee
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I've got a 4G cellular dongle plugged into the Classic on a USB. The Dongle has an external pad antenna connected by two cables.
It's signal to start with was really consistent but it seems to be dropping out a bit lately. Works better across the channel than here.
I, too, have the capability with my 4G dongle of having external antennas but found it made no difference to 4G reception if they were used or not. It was pointed out to me (buried deep in one of the threads on this forum) that the external antennas were only used for the WIFI signal from the dongle to the receiving device (iPad, PAW iGrid etc) and had nothing to do with receiving 4G signals.
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I've got a 4G cellular dongle plugged into the Classic on a USB. The Dongle has an external pad antenna connected by two cables.
It's signal to start with was really consistent but it seems to be dropping out a bit lately. Works better across the channel than here.
I, too, have the capability with my 4G dongle of having external antennas but found it made no difference to 4G reception if they were used or not. It was pointed out to me (buried deep in one of the threads on this forum) that the external antennas were only used for the WIFI signal from the dongle to the receiving device (iPad, PAW iGrid etc) and had nothing to do with receiving 4G signals.
I think it depends on the dongle. I've been able to get big improvements in 4G signal using external antennas...
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Thanks for all the feedback.
The traffic MODE column above shows traffic at up to 800km away so I figure that's coming through either the ATOM or the dongle.
I messed with the 1090 extension cable and things were better so I bought a good quality RG58 cable that doesn't seem to have made any odds, the old one was a flimsy one. My hangar mate re-appeared again the other day when flying together so all I have atm is ok.
Dongle reception; metal aeroplane under a metal panel, a dongle in my son's fibreglass plane even was much better with the pad antenna. The Dongle is the types that look like a zip drive.
How do I power the dongle externally but still have it giving data to the PAW unit via the USB?
406436 is my number. I'd still like the PAW signals to look a little better so aircraft don't disappear and re-appear when close. Going to try the old antenna on the panel to see if it has a better view out the front than the external BNC connected metal one under the belly, under the rudder pedals, below the 0-320 which is a big lump of obscuration of course.
Thanks all, Regards, Clive
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How do I power the dongle externally but still have it giving data to the PAW unit via the USB?
You have your WIFI dongle (with 4G sim card installed) powered from a USB source, other than your PAW and you have a WIFI dongle (the type sold for iGrid) plugged into your PAW. Your WIFI dongle acts as a WIFI hotspot and you just join that hotspot.
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Thanks Paul, I was avoiding having anything else connected to the PAW by wifi aside from my two SD screens.
Assume that isn't an issue with this set up?
I set the PAW to hook up to the dongle on the set up screen?
Though I have to ask if everything is working why don't I leave it as it is?
Regards, Clive
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Thanks Paul, I was avoiding having anything else connected to the PAW by wifi aside from my two SD screens.
Assume that isn't an issue with this set up?
It's not an issue at all; it's what it's designed to do. PAW transmits traffic over WIFI to your SD. It receives iGrid information from your 4G dongle on the little WIFI dongle that plugs into the PAW USB slot.
This is the iGrid dongle that you can plug in and use to receive the 4G data:
https://www.pilotaware.com/product/igrid-wifi-connectivity-module (https://www.pilotaware.com/product/igrid-wifi-connectivity-module)
I set the PAW to hook up to the dongle on the set up screen?
It's on the Network tab. Just go int there, select the 4G dongle name from the drop down list as the hotspot to which you wish to connect and enter the password. It will remember it from then on and connect automatically once your dongle gets going. You can also enable the router option, which means your tablets will also get 4G data from your 4G dongle, via the PAW connection.
Though I have to ask if everything is working why don't I leave it as it is?
Because the Raspberry Pi in your PAW is quite power hungry and running your 4G dongle off the internal USB power as well will cause a larger current to be drawn and the next question will be 'why is my PAW throttling'. Just keep the 4G dongle on another power source.
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Thanks Paul, I'll have a look at a 4G dongle with wifi.
I've still got my wifi dongle from when I had an earlier Raspberry Pi without an internal one, so I'll put that back when I get a 4G dongle with Wifi.
So now I have to ask what is 'throttling' and how will I know it is happening?
Many thanks for your detailed replies and info.
Regards, Clive
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Throttling means that the system has detected either
Low voltage
High temperature
What it will do is reduce the clock speed, and hence processing power, in order to reduce the load on voltage or temperature
Thx
Lee
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Thanks Guys, next question, apologies for being a bit slow, how will I know it's throttling?
Regards, Clive
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The status page will give a warning
Thx
Lee
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Clive,
I haven’t been on the Forum for quite a while. I got out of the habit as there was (as you have reported) nothing new on here for months, and I am only now back on and playing catch-up!
Have you managed to resolve this yet?
Just a few comments to hopefully help clarify a few points…
Thanks for all the feedback.
The traffic MODE column above shows traffic at up to 800km away so I figure that's coming through either the ATOM or the dongle.
The MODE column indicates the type of signal being received by your PilotAware from each aircraft - C = Mode C, S = Mode S, A = ADSB (commercial or from a transponder) reports as ‘CSA’ because the transponder is still transmitting Mode-C (altitude) + Mode-S (hexID and other data) in addition to the ADSB signal, ‘lower case’ a = df18 ADSB (e.g. from a SkyEcho), P = PilotAware. All of the aforementioned indicate direct reception via you antennas unless accompanied by one of the following) - O = ‘Other Mode (normally FLARM / FANET), ’ M = MLAT (triangulated Mode-S/3D), U = Uplink from an ATOM and G = uplink via iGRID.
I’m a bit confused by your comment about ‘traffic at up to 800km away’, - that’s a heck of a long way for direct reception and uplinks are normally restricted to around 60Km from your location (though this can vary depending on where you are).
I messed with the 1090 extension cable and things were better so I bought a good quality RG58 cable that doesn't seem to have made any odds, the old one was a flimsy one. My hangar mate re-appeared again the other day when flying together so all I have atm is ok.
This certainly seems to indicate an issue with the cable or connectors. RG58 is by the way getting near its ‘acceptable loss limits’ at 1090MHz, so is only advised for relatively short runs. I’m pretty sure the cables supplied by PilotAware are LM240 or similar, though I’d need to check.
Dongle reception; metal aeroplane under a metal panel, a dongle in my son's fibreglass plane even was much better with the pad antenna. The Dongle is the types that look like a zip drive.
A 4G dongle or other 4G receiver, such as a phone, needs to be able to ‘see’ the antennas on cellular towers on the ground, so not great if sealed inside a metal (or carbon fibre) box. Experience, however, indicates that a normal phone works fairly well in most aircraft if it has a reasonable view outside the ‘metal box’. In a fabric or fibreglass aircraft it will usually work fine even in your pocket.
How do I power the dongle externally but still have it giving data to the PAW unit via the USB?
This has already been covered. You can power the dongle from a USB power pack (battery) or a separate USB source powered from your aircraft power supply. It can’t, however, supply the received data to your PAW via USB - You have to set up a WiFi hotspot on the dongle - (though you seem to be saying yours doesn’t provide that option which surprises me) - or from your phone or tablet, then connect your PAW to that hotspot by setting up an iGRID link on the PAW Network Screen.
NOTE: the iGRID Network field won’t appear on the PAW Network Screen until you have an iGRID Access Dongle plugged into one of the PAW USB ports. You mention elsewhere using the redundant WiFi dongle from your original ‘Classic’ setup. While this may work, I would advise using a new iGRID Access Dongle from the PAW Store as your old dongle could well have become faulty through extended use.
406436 is my number. I'd still like the PAW signals to look a little better so aircraft don't disappear and re-appear when close. Going to try the old antenna on the panel to see if it has a better view out the front than the external BNC connected metal one under the belly, under the rudder pedals, below the 0-320 which is a big lump of obscuration of course.
Thanks all, Regards, Clive
I tried to look your aircraft reports up on the PilotAware database, but for some reason the server isn’t coming up at the moment. I will try again later. I did manage to get you up on Vector via the link from pilotaware.com. Your ADSB transmissions are looking good, but your P3i coverage and range are both very poor, which normally indicates an antenna issue. First thing to do is thoroughly check the P3i antenna and connections. If you don’t have an antenna tester, you can do a simple test by disconnecting the antenna cable from the PilotAware and checking electrical continuity with a multi-meter on a resistance (Ohms) setting (you can use a length of insulated wire to extend the probe to reach under the aircraft). Centre pin at PAW end of coax to antenna radiating element under the aircraft (assuming this is exposed) should be zero or at least very low resistance - the same with outer of plug at PAW and the ground plane or metal body of the aircraft. Centre pin to outer (at both ends of the cable, and between the wire radiating element and aircraft ground, on the other hand, should be infinitely high resistance. If any of these readings are not what they should be, there is a break or bad in the cable/plugs (high or infinite resistance in the first two) or in the latter case - low or zero resistance indicates a short circuit somewhere along the line (such as a rogue strand of the coax braid touching the centre conductor inside a plug). If no improvement is noted, by all means try your end feed antenna directly on the PAW, but be aware that externally mounted antennas under the aircraft should give far better results - especially in terms of communication and uplink from ground-based ATOM Stations as long as they aren’t hidden close to (for example) undercarriage legs or similar.
Hope this helps
Best Regards
Peter
p.s. when Lee says ‘The status page will give a warning’, he means the ‘STATUS’ row on the PAW Home Screen - Thro=OK will change to Thro= throttled (usually accompanied by VOLT=Error in the first box on that row).