Author Topic: aircraft reg doesn't show any more  (Read 87753 times)

sdkellner

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2017, 07:59:40 pm »
An interesting day, with mixed, and rather confusing, results.

Lee, I went through your steps but I wouldn't say any one made a bigger difference than any other; apart from the power, which returned the radio to normal.

I then moved both aerials so that they are now at least three feet from my transponder aerial; they are tucked inside the seat frame, one either side, and slightly forward of my body.  This may not sound ideal, but it (eventually) seems to have worked - see the attached 'Traffic' pic;  169 aircraft received whilst airborne!  This is way more than I ever saw before.  I say 'eventually' because I only saw this massive increase in the number of aircraft received after I also swapped out my 1090 MHz aerial for the one that came with the replacement ADS-B dongle I bought to replace my originally faulty one; I would say this new aerial received perhaps 10 times as many aircraft when sited in the same, new position.  I also cut it down to size (half-length).  Both my original aerial and dongle therefore appear to have been faulty.

In flight I saw way more traffic than I had ever seen before.  And I also started getting very many audio and visual Mode S alerts; so many that I had to silence the audio.  It was only when I landed that I realised this was most likely because I had the settings wide open; see' Config' pic attached.  I had to do this with my old set-up in order to receive any traffic.  I will now close the filters down a little.

And the best news of all... no radio interference; all crystal clear.  Whilst I was also using my second Anker 20100 Power Core, I think it way more likely that the noise issue was resolved by moving the aerials - so Peter it looks like you were right.

So that's all the good news.  The less good news is that I still can't get my own registration to appear on the traffic list.  I know I am broadcasting ADS-B out; see 'FR24' pic of today's flight as attached, and note that I definitely would not have posted such a clear trace at my low altitude under Mode-S MLAT.  I don't understand what's going on with this, but just to add one more weird issue into the mix, on landing I cycled through my transponder's settings and you'll see in the 'TRT800H' pic that the position field reports 'wrong data'.  It has never said this before.  The Funke manual says that this means no valid position is being received; it would show 'no data' if no position information was received.  But the PAW GPS fix was strong, the NMEA and baud settings are correct; and the FR24 track is perfect.

Any ideas?

Stu


Ian Melville

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2017, 08:28:56 pm »
Great news, and thanks for reporting back.

I had one of those antenna faulty out of the box as well. Used the cable to make my own mini-dipole for ADSB. I am guessing it is the cable to whip connection, though the method of trapping the screen is also dubious.

Sorry Cannot help with transponder, don't even have one.... yet

exfirepro

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2017, 11:42:41 pm »
Stu,

Glad to hear things are now working. Keith / Lee will no doubt pick up the comments re antenna location well clear of Transponder / ADSB antennas and update the Antenna and Installation Guides.

Still don't know what is going on with your transponder! I'm not experienced with FUNKE as I use Trig. Remind me what USB to RS232 lead you are using. This might be the problem. Might also be worth an e-mail to FUNKE suport to ask what would cause such a message.

Don't despair - things are getting better!!  ;) :)

Regards

Peter

Ian Melville

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2017, 07:33:42 am »
Had a think about RS232 signals in general
As Flight Radar confirms ADSB out rather than MLAT? there must be RS232  messages from the PAW, which are received and decoded by the transponder. There could be two things to that can cause issues, which may lead to that error message on screen:
1. The Baud rate is too slow and the message is truncated
2. There is a section in the sent message that is incorrectly formatted, or not supported by the transponder.

sdkellner

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2017, 08:24:12 am »
Hi Peter and Ian

I am using the recommended USB-RS232 lead as here http://uk.farnell.com/ftdi/usb-rs232-we-1800-bt-0-0/cable-usb-a-rs232-serial-convertor/dp/1686450

It's the same one I have always used, and I have never seen the 'wrong data' message before; and I have checked several times previously to make sure all is OK.  The PAW is configured for Funke on USB port 1 at 4800 baud, and the transponder to receive NMEA at 4800; all as before, and as the PAW and Funke manuals recommend.

The fact that my FR24 tracks are now complete and accurate is pretty convincing proof that my ADS-B out registration, altitude and position data are all fine.  But I cannot understand why I don't appear on my PAW's traffic page and why the transponder is now saying 'wrong data'.

Can I please ask a question of anyone else with the same USB-RS232 lead - what colour does the light on the USB end flash in normal use?  I don't remember seeing it previously, but it is currently flashing red when in use; and in general a red flashing light is not a good thing.  I can't find colour codes listed in the lead's manual.

Best

Stu

Admin

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2017, 10:39:44 am »
I think Funke have to comment on what this means.
It could mean anything from an unexpected/unhandled NMEA GPS message
to a CRC failure on the message itself.

It is impossible to guess.

What we could do, is capture the messages sent to the transponder (using the logging facility) and give this to Funke to see which of the messages are causing them to produce this error

Thx
Lee

sdkellner

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2017, 11:30:40 am »
Hi Lee

I've asked Funke and am awaiting their reply.

How do I use the logging facility?  Does it need to be enabled before flight?

Best

Stu

Admin

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2017, 11:48:32 am »
How do I use the logging facility?  Does it need to be enabled before flight?

http://www.pilotaware.com/documents/
Latest Operating Instructions

Page 33, check the 'trp' field, this should log the messages sent to the transponder

Thx
Lee

sdkellner

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2017, 12:06:00 pm »
I think Funke have to comment on what this means.
It could mean anything from an unexpected/unhandled NMEA GPS message
to a CRC failure on the message itself.

Funke have replied as follows:-

'What data sets do you send to the TRT800H?  As mentioned in the manual it expects RMC'.

Does this mean anything to anyone?  All I have done on the PAW side is set USB1 to 'Transponder Funke' at baud rate 4800.

Stu

Giver

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #54 on: April 18, 2017, 12:41:16 pm »
In answer to the question Sdkeller posed on initial startup the USB cable flashes onceGreen and after 30 seconds starts to pulse red every 10 seconds or so,
In traffic my aircraft didn't appear this time but i am certain it's all working fine, I am in a metal roof workshop surrounded by buildings but still receiving plenty of returns,




Ivor

sdkellner

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #55 on: April 18, 2017, 12:55:19 pm »
In answer to the question Sdkeller posed on initial startup the USB cable flashes onceGreen and after 30 seconds starts to pulse red every 10 seconds or so,
In traffic my aircraft didn't appear this time but i am certain it's all working fine, I am in a metal roof workshop surrounded by buildings but still receiving plenty of returns,

Ivor

Thanks Ivor; that's exactly what my cable does.  Interesting that you seem to have intermittent listing of your own registration on your traffic page; mine has never appeared whilst others report that their registrations always appear.  I wonder what could be different between the various installations to cause these different outcomes?

Stu

Ian Melville

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #56 on: April 18, 2017, 07:51:06 pm »
I think Funke have to comment on what this means.
It could mean anything from an unexpected/unhandled NMEA GPS message
to a CRC failure on the message itself.

Funke have replied as follows:-

'What data sets do you send to the TRT800H?  As mentioned in the manual it expects RMC'.

Does this mean anything to anyone?  All I have done on the PAW side is set USB1 to 'Transponder Funke' at baud rate 4800.

Stu

I am fairly confident that the issue is not with your RS232 cable, or you would get no ADSB out, which we know is working.

To answer your question above:
According to FUNKE, the transponder is looking only for RMC messages, which look like this
Code: [Select]
$GPRMC,170956,A,5155.866,N,00126.196,W,0.000,0,060816,,,A*7EIf there is a formatting error in this message by PAW, it could trigger the error you get, or it could be that PAW unit is also sending out anther messages like GSA, to which the transponder is objecting. I suspect the later. This is why Lee wants you to enable logging.

Cheers
Ian


sdkellner

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #57 on: April 18, 2017, 08:21:04 pm »
Thanks Ian.  I am hoping to fly tomorrow so will enable logging and report back.

Stu

exfirepro

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2017, 07:33:38 am »
Hi Stu,

Just to let you know I am still here. I'm just keeping a 'watching brief' at the moment as data messages are much more Lee's area than mine. I was using the same FTDI lead and tried to check the lights for you down at the plane yesterday, then realised I had swapped my FTDI lead to the CFI's plane when I did his PAW/PowerFLARM installation and am still running a different style  temporary lead on my own plane just now. Up to my eyes in bits unfortunately in the middle of a 500 hour wing strip. The joys of (not) flying!! Ah well - back to the airfield, it won't rebuild itself!

Regards

Peter

sdkellner

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2017, 10:40:48 am »
Hi guys

Log attached.  Looks like Ian and Lee are right.  Have tried rebooting PAW; transponder still reporting 'wrong data'.

Just off flying.  If you can give me some pointers I can try and make changes for the return flight.

Cheers

Stu