ICAO HEX Code, not Callsign

[Timothy]

With SafeSky completely removed from the iPhone, I am still getting the same symptoms intermittently sometimes ICAO code sometimes Reg, even on the same aircraft.  Sometimes alternating between the two quite rapidly, sometimes just stuck on one or the other.

[steveu]

Indeed I do and I will check at the weekend, but I would be amazed if SafeSky can “see” PAW simply because it is using the iPhone as a hotspot!

arp -a

[Timothy]

In today’s experiment, I will use a burner iPhone, with almost nothing installed on it, only as a hotspot, to see whether I still see ICAO HEX codes.

Am I the only one seeing this?  I feel quite isolated and unsupported.

[PaulSS]

As already mentioned I, too, see lots of HEX codes without registrations.

There was an explanation on page 1 of why this might be.

I've never had SafeSky anywhere near my aircraft (and won't).

[buzz53]

Would it be helpful to download the PAW track file and see what is displayed using the PAW track replay utility, but also have a look with a text editor? If nothing else it will check that the erratic data is indeed being emitted by PAW but you never know what other clues may show up. You can also get some insight into the ultimate source of the data although this needs a bit of imagination as the log format is not documented. The joys of a closed system! Search for the ICAO code obviously. It seems that the source log entry $PAWRT is only written on first contact but you might, for example, see multiple entries if it is flipping between ADSB/PAW as the source perhaps. PM me the file if you like.

Alan

[Timothy]

I can report that with the burner phone used as a hotspot the problem persists, so this is definitively not a SafeSky Issue.

Comments like "arp -a" lead me to remind people that we are no longer in the world of Raspberry Pis and soldering irons.  This is now a commercial product sold for a not inconsiderable amount of money, on the premise that it "just works."

Alan, that leads me on to saying that I would love to take you up on the offer to look at the log file, but I don't know where to start.  Please give me step by step instructions (from an iPad.)  Thank you!

[buzz53]

Timothy,

Sorry, I know you're techie but I obviously presumed too much PAW specifics. PAW maintains a text based "track" file for each flight containing useful information about, well, your track but also the traffic information sent to your downstream device, and other internal status information. Unfortunatey the format is not public but it's mostly obvious, although some records need a bit of "interpretation". You can download the file from the PAW to your tablet/phone but it sounds like this would need to await your next visit to the aircraft.

Hopefully you have used the PAW web interface on 192.168.1.1? one of the many items is (from memory!) TRACKS, displaying a date and time ordered list of files. Hit "Download" to copy any of them interest to your device. I'm not an Apple user so I'll need to leave you to figure out where they get stored and how to email them to yourself.

One official use of the files is via the flight replay app:

https://playback.pilotaware.com/playback/

Upload the track file and you can then drag the little white circle in the lower part of the display to replay your flight. You will see your own aircraft and also all the traffic that was reported during the flight. Hover or click on the traffic to see it's identity. If you can recall a situation of interest (and your posted screenshots would be examples) it would be interesting to see if the ID displayed corresponds.

Alternatively, and perhaps more interestingly if you're that way inclined, viewing the track file in a text editor will show the detail of what was sent to your device. Admin previously described the $PFLAA messages that convey traffic information, and the differing formats with and without callsign. I expect that this will simply confirm that PAW is at times just omitting the callsign but who knows? There may be some pattern or other clue.

About 5 seconds or so prior to the first $PFLAA message for a particular aircraft you should see a lengthy $PALOG message containing the it's hex code and which appears to convey (not very obviously) the source of the traffic. I assume this message indicates the first receipt of information about that aircraft (and BTW why the 5 second delay in informing the downstream device)? I wonder if this message might reveal anything.

Might be easiest just to send me the file? I'm not saying any of this will help, so don't go out of your way to retrieve it, but sometimes an indirect route leads to useful clues and as you say things have ground to a halt otherwise.

Alan (no connection to PAW, just a mis-spent youth).

PS should just add that I have a PAW Classic, not an FX but I hope and believe that the track logging functionality has not changed.

[PaulSS]

I've seen lots of ghosting when the target has SafeSky on board, in addition to something else (ADSB Out, SkyEcho) but I know that is not the point of this thread and that is usually because they've got the free version of SafeSky and/or haven't bothered to set it up correctly.

The question is why are we seeing so many HEX codes. Is it my imagination or did this problem not exist with the Classic or Rosetta? Is it something to do with the way in which the FX processes the data?

The other thing I am thinking is is this being caused by seeing SkyEcho and/or Flarm in the target aircraft? My basic empirical evidence suggests I often see HEX codes with SkyEcho but I don't know if that is just coincidence or, again, the way the FX processes.

[Timothy]

Alan,

Thank you.  It's going to be next week before I climb back aboard the little one with the FX installed, I will be living the life of "proper" TCAS until then, but I'll certainly have a go on the Web Interface then, thank you.

[A_Vinning33]

I'll begin trying to replicate this issue on FX here.

[PaulSS]

Spitfire G-TCHI just flew right over my house. My ATOM station only saw his HEX code, despite him being equipped with PAW and ADSB Out (not SkyEcho). He remained HEX code only until landing at Goodwood.

[Timothy]

I tried to download the Tracks from the web interface today, but there was no Tracks icon.

I asked ChatGPT (as I couldn't find anything helpful on the PAW documentation, and the engine was running) and it seemed to be saying that on the FX, you don't download from the device, but from the web. But I can't find where on the web.

I tried logging in to pilotaware.com (which it would only let me do if I consented to receiving marketing emails, which I suspect is illegal), but still couldn't find anywhere to download the files.

I'm really beginning to regret this purchase.

[PaulSS]

I'm really beginning to regret this purchase.

Why, simply because you can't see a callsign?

What do you see on TCAS.......loaded question.

[Timothy]

No, but because it's all made so difficult. 

Lack of documentation and consistency. 

I spent ages in the aircraft, with the engine running, looking for the "Tracks" icon, finding no documentation as to where it was or how to find it.

Having to ask ChatGPT, getting home to find nothing useful on the website, trying to log on to the website to be told that I couldn't have a login in unless I agreed to accepting marketing emails, and not being able to uncheck that once I am logged and, having been through all that, there still being no way I could find to download the log files, so, presumably, the only thing I have achieved in an hour of faffing around is more spam.

Very little to do with absence of callsigns, but I am very aware that SE2 and SafeSky, my previous solution, "just works".

Since you ask...

Oh, and yes, Garmin TAS shows callsigns, since you asked what you thought was a loaded question!

[steveu]

Comments like "arp -a" lead me to remind people that we are no longer in the world of Raspberry Pis and soldering irons.  This is now a commercial product sold for a not inconsiderable amount of money, on the premise that it "just works."

This was a thrown away comment to say this it is easy for any device to find out what else is on the network, and act accordingly. Just one line of code.

So if you say:

"Indeed I do and I will check at the weekend, but I would be amazed if SafeSky can “see” PAW simply because it is using the iPhone as a hotspot!"

I work with stuff that can see other stuff even when not on the same VLAN and with the ability to reconfigure network devices wrongly configured.

Very little to do with absence of callsigns, but I am very aware that SE2 and SafeSky, my previous solution, "just works".

Until you look at latency (SafeSky) and RF performance (SE2) - I've got side by side of SE2 and the older Rosetta in the same aircraft on the same flight. Just works... not for me. Ditto looking at SafeSky with aircraft flying over a reference point.

As I understand it, FX doesn't have log files. But I haven't looked at it for 4 months, as that aircraft has been getting fixed. Head over to playback and use the "groundstations" option for a track log.