Author Topic: Interfacing PAW with LX90X0 nav computers and Flarmview units  (Read 6967 times)

PaulRuskin

Re: Interfacing PAW with LX90X0 nav computers and Flarmview units
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2017, 04:17:42 pm »
I made a box recently that received multiple serial streams and combined them into a single output (RS232 or IP), it could prioritise the order depending on the received packet content.  It could also take inputs from IP, collate, and squirt them out a serial port (or IP) too.  Total latency through the system was <40ms (0.04 seconds).

Yes, thanks.  That's the alternative way of doing this, though has the disadvantage that you would not be able to de-duplicate the contacts before feeding them to the displays, and it seems a shame to add the extra box when the PAW has the capability of doing it. There is a similar commercial product available - the K6 Mux.

Paul

PaulRuskin

Re: Interfacing PAW with LX90X0 nav computers and Flarmview units
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2017, 04:31:25 pm »
Quote
In your case, as your 9070 uses an external gps antenna it should be fine (it works fine using a gps feed from a PFCore).

Thanks for the input Peter.  Yes, I think this should work - the gps is pretty steady.

However, might be worth saying that I'm trying to be in a position where we've got something a bit more generic than just my setup.

Paul

Admin

Re: Interfacing PAW with LX90X0 nav computers and Flarmview units
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2017, 05:35:08 pm »
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Alarm3
Alarm2
Alarm1
Distance

Lee - if you could do that, it would be brilliant.  I'll start working on a test setup.

The other reason they prioritise I think is the limited processing power in some of the units.  But there seems to be an option to bump up the data rates in the LX products.  It might be though that we will end up with different data rates on the Flarm in and PAW out streams - so keeping the flexibility to have two different interfaces might be useful.

Paul

Hi Paul,
OK, I was incorrect in what I said.
When I parse the PFLAA messages, I DO maintain the <AlarmLevel> field, so when the FLARM sentence is passed out, it contains the <AlarmLevel> as defined by Flarm
What I do not do, is to process the PFLAU message which is historical because this particular message I believe has no function in most Displays (EasyVFR, SkyDemon etc) it has no ID code associated with this alert.
PFLAU,<RX>,<TX>,<GPS>,<Power>,<AlarmLevel>,<RelativeBearing>,<AlarmType>, <RelativeVertical>,<RelativeDistance>

This could be passed transparently without parsing which would probably be fine for FLARM, not sure what it would do to some of the other NAV systems, I would need to check this.

Thx
Lee

JCurtis

Re: Interfacing PAW with LX90X0 nav computers and Flarmview units
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2017, 06:09:20 pm »
I made a box recently that received multiple serial streams and combined them into a single output (RS232 or IP), it could prioritise the order depending on the received packet content.  It could also take inputs from IP, collate, and squirt them out a serial port (or IP) too.  Total latency through the system was <40ms (0.04 seconds).

Yes, thanks.  That's the alternative way of doing this, though has the disadvantage that you would not be able to de-duplicate the contacts before feeding them to the displays, and it seems a shame to add the extra box when the PAW has the capability of doing it. There is a similar commercial product available - the K6 Mux.

Paul

Not seen the K6 Mux before, interesting.  The box I built could convert bi-directionally between RS232 and IP also transcoding the data sets on the fly too.  I also put in an ethernet switch to make it easier to install.  Not designed for aviation though but the core engine and hardware could easily be adapted.
Designer and maker of charge4.harkwood.co.uk, smart universal USB chargers designed for aviation.  USB Type-A and USB-C power without the RF interference. Approved for EASA installs under CS-STAN too.

PaulRuskin

Re: Interfacing PAW with LX90X0 nav computers and Flarmview units
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2017, 09:05:24 am »
Quote
Hi Paul,
OK, I was incorrect in what I said.
When I parse the PFLAA messages, I DO maintain the <AlarmLevel> field, so when the FLARM sentence is passed out, it contains the <AlarmLevel> as defined by Flarm
What I do not do, is to process the PFLAU message which is historical because this particular message I believe has no function in most Displays (EasyVFR, SkyDemon etc) it has no ID code associated with this alert.
PFLAU,<RX>,<TX>,<GPS>,<Power>,<AlarmLevel>,<RelativeBearing>,<AlarmType>, <RelativeVertical>,<RelativeDistance>

This could be passed transparently without parsing which would probably be fine for FLARM, not sure what it would do to some of the other NAV systems, I would need to check this.

According to the Flarm data spec, PFLAU is the main sentence to be used for connected applications.

Whether all such applications follow that I don't know, but given such a clear steer in the spec, it would seem to me dangerous to ignore it. I can think of some displays which may use this given their limited processing power.  I think if it wasn't passed on, I wouldn't take the risk of putting PAW in the datastream like we're proposing.

The model we're talking about is Flarm -> PAW -> nav computer, displays and alarms.  I'm trying to generalise it from my specific equipment case so that we've got a solution which will work for many glider setups.

So I think the minimum data on the output port is:
- GPS data (I think that's already there) - the Nav computer is going to need this.  I don't know whether you just pass the relevant sentences on, or recreate them.
- PFLAU sentences - sounds like just pass them on
- PFLAA sentences  - I guess that's a mixture then of Flarm traffic and other traffic (but given the Alarm bit in those sentences, if you dedup them from other position sources with the same ID, you should keep the Flarm ones).
- I think the Flarm uses PGRMZ as well for Barometric altitude, and some apps use that.  That's quite an important one for glider pilots, though the loss of it doesn't make the thing unsafe (when used with, say, an Oudie - a type of flight computer - using this sentence improves the accuracy of the vario over the internal GPS alternative).
- There are one or two other sentences that might be passed to the nav computer (eg self test info) whose loss might be confusing though less obviously unsafe.

I think maybe the cleanest, simplest and safest thing to do is pass on all sentences that appear on a Flarm input to the Flarm output, adding extra traffic along the way, and prioritising the PFLAA sentences. 

The input to the PAW from a Flarm is likely to be serial (may or may not be able to control the bit rate).  The output can be serial (it is in my case), or might be through a wifi connection for a PDA (as you already have).  Possibly both in some setups.  So connecting both input and output on one physical USB port might be useful enhancement, but it might be possible that input and output baud rates will be different.

Did I miss anything?